All Small Six Stalling Issues 1983 200ci Mercury Marquis

[marquis83]

Ok, just ran the car again. This time was different because the fuel filter was completely empty after it shut off.

Video of the carb after stalling out. The filter has always been nearly full during all tests up until today.

I've driven the car less than 6 miles since I filled that gas tank.

Don't have anyone else around to twist the key while I troubleshoot, stay tuned.

 

[bubba22349]

You could get or make a remote starter switch to handle that job they are very useful to have. https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3630-...s=remote+starter+switch&qid=1676495159&sr=8-3

I made my own using a older Ford Dash push button starter switch (they were used on the late 1940's and early 1950's 6 volt cars, couple lengths of 12 gauge wire about 2 1/2 to 3 feet long and two alligator battery clips

 

[John Ha]

I also made one - short length of PVC pipe, end cap for pipe, replacement Ford tractor starter button from Tractor Supply, 3 feet of heavy duty outdoor light cable, two large alligator clamps from battery tender cables and a little Kubota orange spray paint so it's easy to find in the drawer. As @bubba22349 indicates, you can also buy them. Your local auto parts store probably sells them if you don't want to wait for Amazon - they're normally between $20 and $30.

 

[marquis83]

Put on a new fuel pump on today, fuel filter refilled with gas.

I had pretty high hopes for it but then it stalled out again after 20 minutes.

Is it normal for the pump body to get warm on a mechanical pump?

Starting to get concerned that there's junk floating around in the gas tank burning up my fuel pumps.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes the Fuel Pump get as hot as the engine dose. Did you happen to do a Flow Volume Test of the Fuel Pump? If not try disconnecting plugging off the Fuel line from the Fuel Tank. Then use a smaller 1 to 5 Gal. Gas Can as a temp Fuel tank and see if it keeps running that will tell you if the fuel tank is the problem.

 

[sixtseventwo4d]

Whenever you are uncertain about the condition of your tank, install a clear inline fuel filter in the line before the fuel pump. This will allow you to observe what's coming from your tank, preserve the rest of the fuel system; and if there is fuel even getting to it when these little issues rise up. The number I listed is for 5/16 line and filters down to 20 micron
Wix 33002

 

[John Ha]

Asking again - right after it stalls, have you tried to remove the fuel filler cap (the one you remove to put fuel in the tank) to see whether there's a vacuum in the tank right after the stall (air will whoosh in as you remove the cap if there is)? If the tank isn't vented properly, the pump will pull fuel until there's a partial vacuum in the tank, and then won't pull any more until the tank is vented. The run time until stall will decrease as the fuel level in the tank is closer to full. Just sayin'

 

[marquis83]

Asking again - right after it stalls, have you tried to remove the fuel filler cap (the one you remove to put fuel in the tank) to see whether there's a vacuum in the tank right after the stall (air will whoosh in as you remove the cap if there is)? If the tank isn't vented properly, the pump will pull fuel until there's a partial vacuum in the tank, and then won't pull any more until the tank is vented. The run time until stall will decrease as the fuel level in the tank is closer to full. Just sayin'

Ran car today, pulled fuel cap after it stalled. No whoosh noise in or out.

I remembered to grab my timing light and bring it to the car. After it stalled there was no spark while cranking.

Whenever you are uncertain about the condition of your tank, install a clear inline fuel filter in the line before the fuel pump. This will allow you to observe what's coming from your tank, preserve the rest of the fuel system; and if there is fuel even getting to it when these little issues rise up. The number I listed is for 5/16 line and filters down to 20 micron
Wix 33002

I have a clear filter on the line now, this is good advice though.

Yes the Fuel Pump get as hot as the engine dose. Did you happen to do a Flow Volume Test of the Fuel Pump? If not try disconnecting plugging off the Fuel line from the Fuel Tank. Then use a smaller 1 to 5 Gal. Gas Can as a temp Fuel tank and see if it keeps running that will tell you if the fuel tank is the problem.

Got a gallon tank full of gas, thinking about purchasing a new battery from wall market. It's about 60 dollars cheaper than any parts store option.
My friend is convinced that I got a brand new bad duraspark box or a faulty coil.

 

[bubba22349]

If its one of the Budget DuraSpark II Boxes (ICM's) than yes I would say your friend could be right on the money those can be a lot of trouble. For that reason alone I will only use a minimum of a new Motorcraft or else the best of the NAPA ICM's in any of my own Cars or on those that I work on for other people. I just can't afford to screw around with changing out those cheap junk ones and be able to grantee my jobs. I have also opened up and looked inside those the Cheap Boxes way back in the early 80's and seen how they are made, they are missing some Transistors and other items that were used in the OEM ICM's, so they are not made to Fords design that was built to last.

 

[drag-200stang]

Do not discount a faulty intermittent ignition switch.

 

[marquis83]

Do not discount a faulty intermittent ignition switch.

I replaced the ignition switch probably 6 months ago. You mean the one on the steering column right?

 

[drag-200stang]

Yes.

 

[marquis83]

Yesterday I ran the car again. This time off a 1 gallon fuel tank. It did the typical thing where it started right up and stalled after 15 minutes.

After it stalled I hooked up the timing light and I noticed it would only spark when the key is released.

Found 10 pages of DSII trouble shooting in the shop manual for my car, so planning to go through all that.

The coil tested good so far.

I need to get a spark tester and a straight pin for piercing some of the wires.

 

[bubba22349]

Here are the Basic's of How to Test Your Stock DuraSpark II Ignition System Parts With a Volt / Ohm Meter.

The DuraSpark II Stock System Parts
https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/12/DuraSpark/Images/duraspark_sm.jpg
Note that the only difference in 4, 6, or V8 engine's DuraSpark II parts is mainly just the Distributor that needs to be engine specific, plus it's Cap, Rotor, and Spark Plug Wire Set. All of the other ignition system parts used are the same. I.E. The Coil and Blue Strain Relief ICM, Note that the Wire Harness is the same except that it might be a different length for an Inline Six over those used on both a 4 Cylinder or V8 engine.


1. First thing is to test is the condition of the battery and its charge, clean the battery posts and the cable terminals. The battery charge needs to be at least 12.5 volts (Write down your voltage reading result for reference) if its not at minimum voltage then try charging the battery up and retest. Now you need to do a cranking voltage test on the battery (again Write this result down for reference), if when your cranking the engine over the battery voltage drops to less than 9 volts the battery will need to be replaced. Again these are the first things to do and is very important to check out that the battery voltage is at the minimum voltage or higher, plus the battery cables condition, cleanliness of all of their connections at each end and they need to be tight before you can accurately do any other voltage reading tests.

2. The voltage to the ignition coil positive terminal should be at the same voltage reading as when your were cranking the engine over. If its not then clean any corrosion, repair or replace a damaged wire coming from the ignition switch (Usually this was a Pink Wire for many years), or if there's no damage then it’s time to replace that worn out ignition switch if you get a lower voltage reading. Next with the power switched off use your Volt / Ohm Meter to test the DS II coils primary resistance at its two terminals. Replace the ignition coil if this reading exceeds 3 ohms resistance.

3. Next with your Volt / Ohm Meter check the resistance of the distributors pickup coil with the ignition switched Off, by unplugging the distributor from its wire harness. Test the pickup coil resistance between the two parallel blades of the distributor plug, According to "Billy the Distributor Guy" (Ford Six site member wsa111) The resistance in the pickup coil should be in the 400-800 range. Most check out close to 600. if its not in that minimum range or if its way higher than you will need to replace the pick up coil. Also test the resistance between each of the two parallel blades in the distributor plug (one at a time) together with the single perpendicular blade. Replace the pickup coil if its reading is below 70,000 ohms.

4. Plug back in the distributor wire harness again, test the cranking voltage to the ICM (Ignition Control Module). Probe the White wire to read its voltage at the ICM while you are cranking the engine over. If the voltage is weak (below the cranking voltage) or there isn't any voltage at all, examine the White wire for any type looseness at terminal connections, clean any corrosion, check for any external wire damage, or internal wire breaks from the starter solenoid's S terminal and repair as needed. If the White wire checks out as in good condition then you will need to replace the starter solenoid.

5. Next Probe the Red wire at the ICM with the ignition switch in the Run position, the voltage should be the same as it is at the battery. If voltage is less then at the battery check the condition of the Red wire for looseness at terminal connections, clean any corrosion, also check for any external damage, or internal wire breaks repair as needed. Next check the Ground wire resistance by probing the Black wire at the ICM and at the Distributor Plug. clean or repair the Black wire if a Volt / Ohm test shows more than 0.3 ohms resistance.

If the trouble still continues and all other ignition system parts have checked out as good then it is time to replace the ICM.

 

[marquis83]

Bought a new battery, car stalled after 20 minutes.

Dome light started working, so we'll call it a win.

Video with engine sounds. I think it sounds normal but it's been a long time since I've been able to really drive it.

 

[bubba22349]

Your old battery sure did drop down in voltage with just that little bit of engine cranking, looks like the Battery was needing to be replaced because of a likely weak Cell. The engine sounds real good now is it running out of fuel or is there another electrical problem. Do you see any damaged wiring?

 

[xctasy]

Welcome here man. Been following your stuff on youtube, it's great!

If your Carb bowl vents aren't leaking air and the fuel system is clean, then you got a few things to check before ignition.

The EGR valve must be operating properly, with its function checked.


The carb must not be loose. The 1bbl log head has a complicated opposed four bolt clamping, which often leaks and creates huge idle problems when hot. A stock gasket and check with a butane torch and a torque down to the required specs is needed.


After those two problems are cleared, the you have to check five other things.


The Holley 1946C has
an idle stop solenoid,
a Throttle Positioner Solenoid, and

a specification vacuum on the Automatic Choke pulldown.

If any of these 3 leak, the engine will stall out in a change over to warmed up.

On both B code and X code 3.3 engines from 1980 to 1983, on the VECI, there are instructions.


Apply MityVac vacuum at Point A, as per VECI instructions to check Automatic choke pull down.

The AC cars have a null knob to set idle.


The forth thing, the myriad of green, red and black TVS and the heat operated sensor from the rectangular water heated steel sensor take off by the upper radiator thermostat must be functioning. Just one hose and they can stop the function of the delay valves, usually at about the 8 minute mark on warmup in cold weather.

The TAD/TAB Air pump must be operating properly, with no leak to the Anti Backfire valve.


If those check out , then Check a fifth thing, the Hot Engine Idle Compensator setting only if the first four things don't check out.

See X code VECI, Four Eyed Pride see "http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?185976-1982-Mustang-GL-coupe"

 

[marquis83]

Your old battery sure did drop down in voltage with just that little bit of engine cranking, looks like the Battery was needing to be replaced because of a likely weak Cell. The engine sounds real good now is it running out of fuel or is there another electrical problem. Do you see any damaged wiring?

I went outside this morning and probed the distributor plug. Got 561 ohms between the two parallel blades.

When I went to probe the parallel and perpendicular plugs I couldn't get a reading other than 1 at any of the settings.

Tried continuity test and I didn't get anything either

 

[xctasy]

Your X code has no color coded vac lines, so all the earlier B code Vehicle Emission Control Information is subtely different for 1983.

Although basically the same for 3 years, on your car, all the water takeoff vacuum lines to about 15 parts are missing. On balance of probablities, the Idle Stop Solenoid or Throttle Positioner Solenoid, or unset Choke pulldown vacuum are open looping the carb and creating a vacuum leak. The separate AC idle speed on earlier cars was controlled by a formerly orange knob on the rocker cover. For 1983, Ford abolished all it's funky 1980 to 1982 colors, so it's a bit of a crap shoot identifying the parts. Sort of like trying to find a missing Highway High Winds warning sign after it's been blown away. If you find the missing part, its likely to be yellow and missing.... No f-ing use.

On Fox Ford's T, B and X code 3.3 liters between 1978 to 1983, the six cylinder engines have are much easier to diagnose than the Four cylinders, V6 and V8s. In addition to the ICM, the Duraspark II has a variable reluctor ( VR) in the ignition, and a known problem with the starter ignition switch interlock, which can short out ignition supply. Added to a non functional VECI, those systems can take the car down. The correct process is to verify the stock Vacuum lines, and then move on to ignition.

When half of the lines are missing to the EGR, AIR, Vacuum Delay Valves and Air Cleaner and Bowl Vent Solenoid and such, your most likely problem is an open loop dumping vacuum to air and stopping the engine. So I'm always a Reestablish Vehicle Emission Control Information, and then go to Ignition after that. It all depends on what you want to do. On your car, there are 83 emissions parts, about 15 missing, and anyone of them is a giant vacuum leak which can take your engine down by venting air.

Next , I hope to post the VECI list so you can maybee look at reestablishing those six lines to 15 other systems from the Hot Water lines, the two three of four post TVS 'VCV' and VCKV lines on the rectangular Manifold by your heater line off the water pump. I'd bet money it's the missing vac lines, and not the Duraspark II that's deep sixing the engine. I've been wrong before, but am pretty sure is vac lines.


Hope this didn't sound like a Rat Barstard Tirade. What your doing looks all pretty logical to me. Hope you have some fortune rather than a bunch of new extra questions from an arm chair critic.

 

[marquis83]

Your X code has no color coded vac lines, so all the earlier B code Vehicle Emission Control Information is subtely different for 1983.

Although basically the same for 3 years, on your car, all the water takeoff vacuum lines to about 13 parts are missing. On balance of probablities, the Idle Stop Solenoid or Throttle Positioner Solenoid, or unset Choke pulldown vacuum are open looping the carb and creating a vacuum leak. The separate AC idle speed on earlier cars was controlled by a formerly orange knob on the rocker cover. For 1983, Ford abolished all it's funky 1980 to 1982 colors, so it's a bit of a crap shoot identifying the parts. Sort of like trying to find a missing Highway High Winds warning sign after it's been blown away. If you find the missing part, its likely to be yellow and missing.... No f-ing use.

On Fox Ford's T, B and X code 3.3 liters between 1978 to 1983, the six cylinder engines have are much easier to diagnose than the Four cylinders, V6 and V8s. In addition to the ICM, the Duraspark II has a variable reluctor ( VR) in the ignition, and a known problem with the starter ignition switch interlock, which can short out ignition supply. Added to a non functional VECI, those systems can take the car down. The correct process is to verify the stock Vacuum lines, and then move on to ignition.

When half of the lines are missing to the EGR, AIR, Vacuum Delay Valves and Air Cleaner and Bowl Vent Solenoid and such, your most likely problem is an open loop dumping vacuum to air and stopping the engine. So I'm always a Reestablish Vehicle Emission Control Information, and then go to Ignition after that. It all depends on what you want to do. On your car, there are 83 emissions parts, about 15 missing, and anyone of them is a giant vacuum leak which can take your engine down by venting air.

Next , I hope to post the VECI list so you can maybee look at reestablishing those six lines to 15 other systems from the Hot Water lines, the two three of four post TVS lines on the rectangular Manifold by your heater line off the water pump. I'd bet money it's the vac lines, and not the Duraspark II that's deep sixing the engine. I've been wrong before, but am pretty sure is vac lines.


Hope this didn't sound like a Rat Barstard Tirade. What your doing looks all pretty logical to me. Hope you have some fortune rather than a bunch of new extra questions from an arm chair critic.

The vac stuff could definitely be an issue, and yes there are leaks. Everything is plugged in right now and complete as far as I know.

The car always ran before with said leaks, what keeps bothering me is that I know the brake booster needs to be replaced, and the orange striped vac line that comes off the carb is super dry rotted.

Didn't expect there to be much interest in the emissions aspect of this engine as I've always wanted to delete it all, but I went outside and snapped some pics since the 83 is special. The only thing I'm aware is missing from the original system is the catalyst because it clogged.

There is 1 wire that isn't connected to anything that I've had taped off since I bought the car. I've put thousands of miles on it without it being connected.

I hope my post didn't sound like a bat rastard who can't get his car running tirade.