170 Build Plan for Street Use - Sorry, long post.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone! I'm new here although I've followed the forum for the past several years. I've searched the past posts several times with no luck and have the Performance Handbook but that hasn't really answered my questions either.

Here's my situation. My wife and I own a '63 Comet S-22 Convertible which used to be her father's car. It has a 170, Dagenham 4spd, and I believe the small rear end (6.75 or 7.25?). I also believe it has an Autolite 1100 carb (put that in 5 years ago so my memory isn't so fresh on that). I've worked on the suspension and steering for the time being and will be picking up the original engine in a week. (It broke 25 years ago and a family member has stored it in a warehouse.) I imagine everything on it is frozen and may even have some critters in it.

I'd like to keep the look as stock as possible and keep the original block and head. I plan on putting in headers and a petronix unit which will be my sacrifice of "originality". Since we'll be pulling the engine apart and putting new everything in it, what can I do to boost it's "umph" but still maintain driveability and street use. Any recommended parts, part numbers? I imagine a lot will have to do with the block and heads condition and it's return back from the machine shop. Oh! This will be my first rebuild but I have a friend helping out who's restored 3 previous cars (all early Mustangs) and his father is the head mechanic at a restoration shop so I have plenty of help.

I would like help with a game plan for the engine. Thanks a bunch everyone!

Rick in Orangevale, CA

 

[Anonymous]

welcome to the forum

not sure how much is out there for the 170 but you'll find anything that there is here http://www.fordsixparts.com/ he's AzCoupe

other's will tell you more but you can get more power from a port and polish on the head

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Rick:

Know that your C3 head will be the greatest limitation. That casting was the last of the small 1.52" intake vlaves and 1.266" exhaust valves. You could easlily machine for the next generation of 1.65" intakes and 1.38" exhaust valves. Be sure to specify a three angle valve job and back cut on the intake valves. Also be sure to compensate for the difference in thickness of the composite headgasket to the OEM steel shim typed to maintain stock compression. Be sure to install the exhaust port divider while the head is apart.

You will not need to worry about hardened inserts on the valves if this is going to be a toy car- less than 7,000 miles a year.

The Petronix is a good consession. You could also upgrade your 170 1100 to a 200 1100 from '65 or '66. You'll be going from 156 CFM to 185. That will be noticeable. This carb will be compatible with your Load-a-matic distributor and appear to be stock.

At this level of modification a performance cam is of marginal importance. It will move the power curve up which may not be what you want. Since this will likely be a non-hydraulic cam choices are limited. Something with 256 degrees of duration and .400" lift would be nice. Any more duration will be at the expense of your already limited low end torque. Any more lift with this head will be wasted motion. Flow will be finished at about .375" of lift.

That's my two cents- for what it's worth.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys! Ok about everything you mentioned but had a follow up question. Since I'll have the engine completely apart, if I went with the cam upgrade, reading the Performance Handbook, I should be looking at the Clifford #932011 254H Stage 1 Cam or the Comp Cam 252H?

Thanks again!

Rick

 

[wsa111]

Rick, if you are planning to use the 63 engine, If i'm not mistaken this engine uses mechanical lifters.

I may need some help from CZLN6 on this early year engine.

If you plan to stay with the 63 engine your only choice would be a mechanical lifter camshaft.

Its your choice, but this engine is strangled by small ports & valve size.

If I was in your shoes, I just would rebuild the stock engine & appreciate the original performance.

Its your choice, but to see a real gain in performance I would go to the 200 engine as an upgrade, where the sky is the limit.

If you make that choice get your check book out.

If you do any upgrade, use the 68 exhaust manifold & take advantage of the 2" exhaust system.

Its your vehicle, the choice is in your check book. William

 

[61Futura]

I put a '63 Comet 170 in my Falcon and it has hydraulic lifters. The rockers are adjustable, but I bet it has hydraulic lifters too.

 

[Anonymous]

The Performance Handbook says this engine would have solid lifters and adjustable rocker arms. Having said that, I'm still clueless which is why I'm having someone help me (basically watching over me telling me what to do while I learn). I know I'm very limited with the head but my wife and I really want to keep it as stock as possible. So, it then comes down to what can I do with what I've got.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I do appreciate it.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

The cams you're looking at are hydraulic. Probably the 1st thing you should do is to verify whether your block is designed for a hydraulic lifter system. Check the casting number on the side of the block. Check the type of lifters that are in the core.

Either of those cams you listed are in the ball park. Also Crane offers a #H-194/265-2S-10 which is a dual pattern design, which will have some advantages considering the limitations of your head. Again, this is a Hyd design.

Nail down what your working with 1st, then we'll go from there.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

It's gonna be a solid lifter cam in 63. As for camshaft limitations, cam companies will grind a cam for ANY engine if you just ask. The catalog is usually only a small sampling of what they really have available. Do a web search on Racer Brown camshafts, I had them grind one for my 62 170, it was only like 70 bucks, and it runs great. You'll have to wait a couple weeks to get it, but at least they are available...

 

[AzCoupe]

I can have Clay Smith grind a solid cam in that range and have it in a few days. If your interested, shoot me a PM and we can work on it.

Or you can call George, at Clay Smith Cams, and he will give you a cam recomendation. He takes calls after 3PM Pacific time, for this sort of thing. Another option, fill out the form on their website. Just let him know it going to be ordered thru FSPP (so I can get it for you at my price).

Clay Smith Cams http://www.claysmithcams.com/

I think David gave you some great advise. But I'll go one step farther. If you want to keep it stock (or all original) for resale down the road, I would pull the head, put it in storage, and opt for a better cylinder head for now. If you want to keep it stock, for appearance sake, then I would still opt for a better head, and carburation. Why put all that work into a head with it's given limitations?

For your head swap options read this topic, posted by David http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1027
Get some good flow from the head you selelct (see Davids comments), add a slight better bump stick (cam), headers, a petronics, and upgraded carb.

 

[61Futura]

So now I'll have to figure out if I really have hydraulic or solid lifters. I adjusted the rockers with 1/2 turn of loading after replacing the head. The block # is C3DE-6015-E. It runs good and has stable vacuum reading.There are other markings on the block. How do I find if my block was designed for hydraulics or solids. It was just rebuilt when I got it. An exhaust tab was broken off the head is why I replaced the head.

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all.

From the manual, this forum, and your recommendations, I think I've been able to come up with a pretty decent game plan. It's gonna take some time and money before it's all done (you know the situation - work, home, children, etc.) so I'll keep the links on the cams (in fact, I've printed out your responses and attached them to my handbook) and use them when I get to that stage.

Great advice too about keeping the original head for later resale value and putting a later model one on for now. Now why didn't I think of that???

I'll thank everyone now and let this post drop so it doesn't keep getting bumped up. Maybe when it's all done I'll have a digital camera to post pictures!

Rick