All Small Six Starting new build

[Montytm26]

if my Google skills aren’t failing me, Summit says that piston is for a 250 at the bottom of the page under application:

Silvolite 3327H.060 Silv-O-Lite Hypereutectic Pistons | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Silv-O-Lite Hypereutectic Pistons with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Pistons at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

I saw that on summit's page also, but this is out of silvolites part number listing...

 

[Frank]

Got some info on the block. It’s been bored .060 already but looks good with no run-out. I’m assuming the popular belief with go with it? I haven’t ordered pistons yet but found .060 over flat tops. I’m dropping the block off Friday to the machine shop. They’re wanting to know how much I need taken off for 0 decking. I’m assuming I can just put the pistons back in and and measure from the highest one to top of the the block for that measurement? Does anyone know if the flat top pistons are same height as dished?

To calculate piston to deck clearance: block height minus: (( (1/2stroke) +rod length+ piston pin height ))

I don't know any of these #'s for a small6, sorry.

 

[Wayne clark]

Hey all, finally had time to pull my motor and and start the process of a full rebuild. Here’s the current list of parts…
Aluminum head serial #026
Yella Terra 1:65 roller rockers
Double timing chain
Holley 2300 sniper
Holley hyper spark distributor and coil pack
Schneider cams 262-70h cam
I’m going with flat top pistons but don’t know if I need to bore the block yet. T5 conversion. A bunch of other miscellaneous parts. I do have a couple questions though.
Should I upgrade the radiator from factory? The original one looks to be in good shape and doesn’t have much crud in it. Do they flow enough for a mild build?
The alternator that’s in the car doesn’t have any tags on it except “tested to 70 amps”. It is not a single wire alternator. Will I have issues running the Holley components with this? I’m sure I’ll I’ll have a lot more questions as I continue on. Calling this week to get in to the machine shop for the block work. Decking, cam bearings etc. It has been about 5 years in the making for parts acquisition and time to do it but I’m glad it’s finally started!

Seen your post about the radiator. I have a 67 Mustang vert 200/c4 . I run a small log head with a 2300 Sniper & Hyperspark . I installed a Paxton on it about .2 years ago . Before the Paxton install i ran a new copper & brass oem type radiator and everything was fine .
During the Paxton install i put a brand new alumn Radiator in, a new flow cooler water pump along with a flex blade fan .
Have to really keep an eye on it now . In slow or stopped traffic it will heat up sometimes badley . Planning on installing pretty much every thing on my eng that you listed other than the rebuild . Been about a 6 year acculation of parts .When I do I plan on going back to the oem style radiator .
You put your timeing #'s in the handheld try 24 degrees for your idle . My motor did'nt like the factory 12 degrees at all for idle setting.
Put 24 in & it idles smooth now .
You will like that 2300 if you get it sorted out . Adds a good bit of power . For what it's worth get an intank efi fuel pump . The inline pumps that.come with the Sniper kits are a problem waiting to happen .
Another suggestion is to install an electronic fuel pressure gauge inside where you can monitor your fuel pressure , a pressure gauge under the hood is pretty useless .
Another for what it's worth , be on the lookout out for a Paxton set up for your 200 ,that thing is killer paired up with a 2300 Sniper . My vert runs like it has a v8 in now . Even pushing everything thru that small log head .

 

[awasson]

Seen your post about the radiator. I have a 67 Mustang vert 200/c4 . I run a small log head with a 2300 Sniper & Hyperspark . I installed a Paxton on it about .2 years ago . Before the Paxton install i ran a new copper & brass oem type radiator and everything was fine .
During the Paxton install i put a brand new alumn Radiator in, a new flow cooler water pump along with a flex blade fan .
Have to really keep an eye on it now . In slow or stopped traffic it will heat up sometimes badley . Planning on installing pretty much every thing on my eng that you listed other than the rebuild . Been about a 6 year acculation of parts .When I do I plan on going back to the oem style radiator .
You put your timeing #'s in the handheld try 24 degrees for your idle . My motor did'nt like the factory 12 degrees at all for idle setting.
Put 24 in & it idles smooth now .
You will like that 2300 if you get it sorted out . Adds a good bit of power . For what it's worth get an intank efi fuel pump . The inline pumps that.come with the Sniper kits are a problem waiting to happen .
Another suggestion is to install an electronic fuel pressure gauge inside where you can monitor your fuel pressure , a pressure gauge under the hood is pretty useless .
Another for what it's worth , be on the lookout out for a Paxton set up for your 200 ,that thing is killer paired up with a 2300 Sniper . My vert runs like it has a v8 in now . Even pushing everything thru that small log head .

Wayne, those aluminum radiators are a bit of a question mark for me. I love the look and the idea of the capacity but they are known to have more resistance to air flow becuase (and I think I'm correct in saying this) the aluminum tubes are bigger than the copper/brass ones and as a result there is less area of vacant space for the air to travel. Being that the fan is running slower at idle, there is just less ability to flow air too.

Regarding your +24° initial timing. Are you on a stock camshaft? My 66 200 has a Clay Smith 6474 street performance cam and initial advance is at somewhere around 20° - 21° and it runs pretty smooth. It's got a lope to it at idle and sits at around 600 RPM - 750 RPM. It will not idle very well at all below about +18°. I haven't bumped it as high as +24° out of fear of the unknown but maybe I ought to. It has ported vacuum of +10° but I can adjust that. It has centrifugal advance of +14° which is also somewhat adjustable.

 

[awasson]

I saw that on summit's page also, but this is out of silvolites part number listing...


View attachment 25447

Good to know. If I had know about these last year, I certainly would have gone this route. I bought the slivolite small dish version of these at 60 over when I built mine. My compression ratio is just a touch under 9:1. I may boost mine in the future so I'm ok not having higher compression but given the choice, today, right now... I'd go with the ones you're getting.

 

[Montytm26]

Seen your post about the radiator. I have a 67 Mustang vert 200/c4 . I run a small log head with a 2300 Sniper & Hyperspark . I installed a Paxton on it about .2 years ago . Before the Paxton install i ran a new copper & brass oem type radiator and everything was fine .
During the Paxton install i put a brand new alumn Radiator in, a new flow cooler water pump along with a flex blade fan .
Have to really keep an eye on it now . In slow or stopped traffic it will heat up sometimes badley . Planning on installing pretty much every thing on my eng that you listed other than the rebuild . Been about a 6 year acculation of parts .When I do I plan on going back to the oem style radiator .
You put your timeing #'s in the handheld try 24 degrees for your idle . My motor did'nt like the factory 12 degrees at all for idle setting.
Put 24 in & it idles smooth now .
You will like that 2300 if you get it sorted out . Adds a good bit of power . For what it's worth get an intank efi fuel pump . The inline pumps that.come with the Sniper kits are a problem waiting to happen .
Another suggestion is to install an electronic fuel pressure gauge inside where you can monitor your fuel pressure , a pressure gauge under the hood is pretty useless .
Another for what it's worth , be on the lookout out for a Paxton set up for your 200 ,that thing is killer paired up with a 2300 Sniper . My vert runs like it has a v8 in now . Even pushing everything thru that small log head .

Wayne thanks for all the good info! I’m sure I’ll be reaching out as the build moves forward. I did get the intank pump with the kit because of similar worries with the inline ones. Did you go with the hyperspark ignition also?

 

[Montytm26]

Good to know. If I had know about these last year, I certainly would have gone this route. I bought the slivolite small dish version of these at 60 over when I built mine. My compression ratio is just a touch under 9:1. I may boost mine in the future so I'm ok not having higher compression but given the choice, today, right now... I'd go with the ones you're getting.

The bad part on knowing what to take off the deck for “0” is the pistons won’t be in for a bit. My machine shop can get the block in on Friday but if I miss it, it’ll be 2-3 months out. He was doing me a solid because of having a couple of 4 cylinders he was doing.

 

[awasson]

The bad part on knowing what to take off the deck for “0” is the pistons won’t be in for a bit. My machine shop can get the block in on Friday but if I miss it, it’ll be 2-3 months out. He was doing me a solid because of having a couple of 4 cylinders he was doing.

Guys also run the Ford Tempo 2.3 liter 4 cylinder pistons in our 3.3 liter engines. They are the same diameter as the 3.3 and are a higher compression ratio. For flat top pistons, Silvolite has a model 1185, Sealed Power has a model 489P and Engine Tech has a model P1541. The downside is that they typically sell them in sets of 4 and you need 6 of them.

Also when I built my engine, I used chrome molly rings. I’ve built a few engines before but never used the chrome rings. The bores had to be honed specifically for the chrome rings but what a difference. They seated immediately. I used zero oil during break in and it was as though no break in was necessary. A night and day difference from my use of garden variety, old school rings.

 

[DON]

For efficient cooling, don’t forget a shroud

 

[Frank]

The bad part on knowing what to take off the deck for “0” is the pistons won’t be in for a bit. My machine shop can get the block in on Friday but if I miss it, it’ll be 2-3 months out. He was doing me a solid because of having a couple of 4 cylinders he was doing.

Calculate how much needs to come off, that's what I did with mine. See post 22.

 

[Montytm26]

Ok while block is at machine shop continuing on gathering the last few parts. What’s everyone’s opinion on con rod bolts and main cap bolts? Reuse or replace? And if so, what should I go with?

 

[Frank]

Ok while block is at machine shop continuing on gathering the last few parts. What’s everyone’s opinion on con rod bolts and main cap bolts? Reuse or replace? And if so, what should I go with?

Many use ARP bolts. I don't. If the stock rods/bolts look unharmed, reusing them is acceptable for all but the highest HP builds. Torque them in the middle of the torque range. On my last build, that was 43 lbs on rods. (Big6) Do the same with mains. The torque chart gives a range of acceptable torque. Split the hi/low.
Also- and here I'm being Mr overkill maybe- I replace the rod and cap bolts back onto the same stud/block hole they came out of. The above is the procedure for big diesels which may be rebuilt many times and have millions of miles/ tens of thousands of hours with factory fasteners. I haven't ever had stock crank/rod fasteners fail in my diesel rebuilds or automotive gas engines. Before install, be sure the block threads are clean as well as the bolts. Using a fastener-specific lube will assure correct torque is achieved.

If you use ARP the rods will have to be resized/balanced, so keep that in mind.

(Not advice, just FYI)

ARP 100-9910 ARP Ultra Torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - ARP Ultra Torque Fastener Assembly Lubricant with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Assembly Lubricant at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[awasson]

Ok while block is at machine shop continuing on gathering the last few parts. What’s everyone’s opinion on con rod bolts and main cap bolts? Reuse or replace? And if so, what should I go with?

I had my rods sized and balanced with the original bolts and I used the original main cap bolts too. Next time I might opt for ARP because in the big picture they don't add that much to the cost but that's simply for bragging rights. My engine should not make enough power to over stress the stock rod bolts and main bolts.

I did opt for ARP head studs because I wanted something to line up the head and and make my job easier installing it. I also like the idea of them being able to take a lot of torque. That was money well spent.

 

[Wayne clark]

Wayne thanks for all the good info! I’m sure I’ll be reaching out as the build moves forward. I did get the intank pump with the kit because of similar worries with the inline ones. Did you go with the hyperspark ignition also?

Just got out to a place with service & seen your post . I do have the Hyperspark dist now . However I ran the Sniper on the stock points dist(& a msd 6al ) for a little while before putting a Dura Spark in . Was about 3 years with it .
Knowing what I do now I don't know why any one running a Sniper would not have a Hyper Spark dist in their eng .
Only thing I wish they had some adjustability for when your cruise timeing comes in . Other than that I love it .

 

[Montytm26]

Started doing some prep and cleaning work on parts I removed and going to reuse. Has anyone gone with Yella Terra rockers on the aluminum head? I was assuming you would just remove the rockers and perch mounts off the tube and install the Yella Terras....but obviously that wont work. Am I missing something? Do they offer different perch mounts? Kinda at a loss on this one.

 

[DON]

On the stock head, they come with a flat bar that bolts to the pedestals, then the rockers bolt to the bar. I can send more picks if you want

 

[Montytm26]

On the stock head, they come with a flat bar that bolts to the pedestals, then the rockers bolt to the bar. I can send more picks if you want

Yeah I found them....didn't realize the plates were under the packaging for the rockers

 

[Wayne clark]

Yeah I found them....didn't realize the plates were under the packaging for the rockers

Check the install instructions . I think the yella terra roller rockers require oil thru lifters & push rods . Also the oil supply hole that's in the block for the stock lifters has to be plugged

 

[DON]

Wayne Clark is correct

 

[Montytm26]

Check the install instructions . I think the yella terra roller rockers require oil thru lifters & push rods . Also the oil supply hole that's in the block for the stock lifters has to be plugged

I believe there is a post somewhere explaining that procedure as well as grooving a couple lifters near the distributor?