All Small Six 1964 F100 223 tuning issues

[Reid64f100]

Hello all. I recently inherited a 1964 f100 223 that my grandfather left me when he died. Has a lot of sentimental value and Im trying to get it running well. It sat a lot for the last several years except a couple times I was home and got it running well enough to drive it some. The last time I drove it before I moved it to my home this week I had an issue where it seemed the float got stuck and gas was completely filling the carb. Fixed this by knocking on the float chamber and that got it unstuck but it didnt run very well after that and I didnt have time to investigate further. I spent several days this past weekend tinkering with it to try and get it running well before I moved it. Starting at the beginning I checked the spark plug gaps with what I found online is the correct gap of .035. I have since read through the operators manual and realized the correct spark plug gap listed is .030 for a 223 CID. I set the points gap to 0.025 which is the middle of the recommended range and with a timing light set the initial timing to 4 degrees. After doing this it seemed to be running pretty well and was able to drive it to the gas station to get more gas. However when I went up a hill in second it seemed to bog down and when I got on the highway and in third gear and gave it any real juice it bogged down. operating under the assumption that the mixture was too rich I tried to fine tune the carb with a vacuum gauge. The truck has the load-o-matic vacuum advance distributor and autolite 1100 carb. When i tried using the vacuum gauge I started having issue and I am concerned that I may have had it hooked to the wrong port. I attached the gauge to the vacuum line on the carb but after doing more research it seems that it should have been attached a port on the intake but after multiple attempts to find an answer about where exactly the intake manifold port is on google I have turned to this forum for answers. after attempting the vacuum gauge adjustment connected to the carb it has gotten considerably worse. It has a hard time idling without at least some choke applied and im getting backfires out of the carb and exhaust. Trying to figure out where to go from here. I was wondering if someone could give me an exact location of where the intake port is and maybe a good picture of it just so I know where it is lol. Im thinking I need to replace the fuel filters and get the carb rebuilt before I really attempt starting over from the beginning and going back through the process of set up. Long winded post I know and if you have read to this point I really appreciate it. This truck means a lot to me as i used to ride around with my grandfather in it before he completely restored it. Its in excellent physical condition and I remember when he could barley blow on the ignition and it would spring to life and run like a dream and I want to get it back to its former glory. Any information is greatly appreciated. God Bless.

 

[Frank]

Hello all. I recently inherited a 1964 f100 223 that my grandfather left me when he died. Has a lot of sentimental value and Im trying to get it running well. It sat a lot for the last several years except a couple times I was home and got it running well enough to drive it some. The last time I drove it before I moved it to my home this week I had an issue where it seemed the float got stuck and gas was completely filling the carb. Fixed this by knocking on the float chamber and that got it unstuck but it didnt run very well after that and I didnt have time to investigate further. I spent several days this past weekend tinkering with it to try and get it running well before I moved it. Starting at the beginning I checked the spark plug gaps with what I found online is the correct gap of .035. I have since read through the operators manual and realized the correct spark plug gap listed is .030 for a 223 CID. I set the points gap to 0.025 which is the middle of the recommended range and with a timing light set the initial timing to 4 degrees. After doing this it seemed to be running pretty well and was able to drive it to the gas station to get more gas. However when I went up a hill in second it seemed to bog down and when I got on the highway and in third gear and gave it any real juice it bogged down. operating under the assumption that the mixture was too rich I tried to fine tune the carb with a vacuum gauge. The truck has the load-o-matic vacuum advance distributor and autolite 1100 carb. When i tried using the vacuum gauge I started having issue and I am concerned that I may have had it hooked to the wrong port. I attached the gauge to the vacuum line on the carb but after doing more research it seems that it should have been attached a port on the intake but after multiple attempts to find an answer about where exactly the intake manifold port is on google I have turned to this forum for answers. after attempting the vacuum gauge adjustment connected to the carb it has gotten considerably worse. It has a hard time idling without at least some choke applied and im getting backfires out of the carb and exhaust. Trying to figure out where to go from here. I was wondering if someone could give me an exact location of where the intake port is and maybe a good picture of it just so I know where it is lol. Im thinking I need to replace the fuel filters and get the carb rebuilt before I really attempt starting over from the beginning and going back through the process of set up. Long winded post I know and if you have read to this point I really appreciate it. This truck means a lot to me as i used to ride around with my grandfather in it before he completely restored it. Its in excellent physical condition and I remember when he could barley blow on the ignition and it would spring to life and run like a dream and I want to get it back to its former glory. Any information is greatly appreciated. God Bless.

Welcome! The inherited vehicles are the best.
your carb is lean, not rich. Almost assuredly the issue is a dirty tank and filter sock. Before rebuilding the carb, verify the condition of the tank however you can. The pickup tube needs to be examined and cleaned. Then a new fuel filter and see if that clears up the bog and backfiring. Both of those symptoms indicate a lean condition.

 

[Reid64f100]

Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on the type fuel filters I should use. There is a regular clear plastic paper looking filter on the line just under the tank up stream from the fuel pump and also an in-line before the carb that is metal. I believe it’s a purolator.

 

[DON]

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[Frank]

Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on the type fuel filters I should use. There is a regular clear plastic paper looking filter on the line just under the tank up stream from the fuel pump and also an in-line before the carb that is metal. I believe it’s a purolator.

Take a close look at the one near the tank, on the suction side. It's condition will give a clue toward the tank's condition. It's not bad to have a filter on the intake side of the pump, but it does not take much restriction to create enough vacuum in the line that it will vaporize the gas, then you've got a lean condition. Changing both filters may solve your issue. The generic inexpensive filters are ok, just be sure the nipple is the correct size. Change them no matter how they look, especially the one at the tank.

 

[Reid64f100]

Thanks Frank. Have any info on where I should attach a vacuum gauge to tune after I get the filters replaced?

 

[Frank]

Thanks Frank. Have any info on where I should attach a vacuum gauge to tune after I get the filters replaced?

I'm not directly familiar with the 223. You need intake vacuum. Anywhere on the intake that has a port. Nearer to the center is better. The carb may have a vacuum port. You'll know it's manifold vacuum when the gauge is high at idle. If the gauge is low or at 0 at idle then rises rapidly when the throttle is cracked open, that is ported vacuum, used for the distributor vacuum advance.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, the only adjustment on the carb is the idle mixture and the idle speed. Neither have any effect on the engine when you are accelerating or cruising. Frank is correct, bogging and popping is a running lean symptom. I would remove the air cleaner, and with the engine off, open the throttle and check for a healthy squirt from the accelerator pump, and I would run more initial timing, @ 10-12* BTDC. The spark plug gap and point gap is fine. I would run a compression test to see the condition of the engine. The vacuum line from the carb to the distributor was a metal line. Look for a port under the carb or on the intake manifold with a pipe plug or a rubber hose. Try to set up the engine without the vacuum gauge. Start the mixture screw (the one screw with the spring), first gently turn it in, and then out one and a half turns, then slowly turn it in until the engine stumbles, and then bring it out one full turn. Then adjust the idle screw to the desired RPM. Adjust the timing first because adjusting the timing will change the RPMs. Good luck

 

[Reid64f100]

Thanks. The metal vacuum line running to my carb isnt a full metal line. The last foot or so was replaced with a small diameter rubber hose that runs from the carb to an abbreviated metal line. Would I use the plugged hole on the intake for the vacuum gauge? Just replace the plug with an adapter and then attach the gauge to that?

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, yes, you can try that, but that plug might not be easy to get out. What is the large rubber hose going too? you can use that for a vacuum port. By the way, that spring and shaft thing on the exhaust manifold is a heat riser. Many of them have disintegrated over time. See if the shaft moves back and forth. The last thing you want is a heat riser that is stuck closed. Good luck

 

[Reid64f100]

The big rubber hose runs to the valve cover.

 

[Reid64f100]

I looked at the heat riser. Rotates fairly easily with slight pressure.

 

[Frank]

The big rubber hose runs to the valve cover.

That is your PCV system. Don't tap into that for a vacuum reading- unless you remove the valve from the hose at the valve cover and can find a way to get a sealed connection to your gauge. The other bolt in the intake is a source. May take a couple days soaking in PB blaster to get loose.

A vacuum gauge is not really necessary to tune IMO, I've never used one. Your ear is sufficient.
1) Set the base timing to 10* BTDC, warm the engine up until the choke is fully open.
2) Then set your idle speed where you like it. There's no rule here, whatever idle you like is ok.
3 After the idle speed is set, begin adjusting the idle mixture screw. This is the point at which you proceed slowly, listening carefully to the engine. Begin by tightening the screw in, by no more than 1/4 turn increments. Pause after each change and listen. When the engine begins to loose rpm go 1/4 farther in the clockwise, tightening, direction. The engine should drop more rpm and may begin to stumble. You are now too lean, and this is your baseline to begin tuning.
4) Now begin turning the screw in the CCW direction. First take out the last 1/4 turn that made it drop rpm. From here, continue backing the screw out CCW, reduce your adjustments to 1/8 turn at the time. Pause after each change! and listen. Continue this until the engine sounds the best and is smooth, at the highest rpm. It's tuned.
Note that if you go too far in the CCW direction, the drop in the rpm is less pronounced than it was on the lean side. If you keep turning it out CCW and can't tell any difference in the engine you've gone far enough, maybe too far. The point of reference is from the first step, where it's too tight. If you're not sure if you went too far, screw it back in until it stumbles again, and repeat the procedure. The key is taking your time and listening with every change. Once you've found it's happy place you can add 1/8 turn CCW or stop there, the carb is tuned.

This may assist you in visualizing what's going on: the amount of air coming in is the same. The end of the mixture screw is tapered, and in a small passageway where the gas for idle is trying to get into the engine. The tighter the screw is, the more that taper blocks the gas. So to the right, tightening= a leaner mix, unscrewing it left pulls the taper back, allowing more gas to pass through to the engine= richer.

 

[Bill1958]

That is your PCV system. Don't tap into that for a vacuum reading- unless you remove the valve from the hose at the valve cover and can find a way to get a sealed connection to your gauge. The other bolt in the intake is a source. May take a couple days soaking in PB blaster to get loose.

A vacuum gauge is not really necessary to tune IMO, I've never used one. Your ear is sufficient.
1) Set the base timing to 10* BTDC, warm the engine up until the choke is fully open.
2) Then set your idle speed where you like it. There's no rule here, whatever idle you like is ok.
3 After the idle speed is set, begin adjusting the idle mixture screw. This is the point at which you proceed slowly, listening carefully to the engine. Begin by tightening the screw in, by no more than 1/4 turn increments. Pause after each change and listen. When the engine begins to loose rpm go 1/4 farther in the clockwise, tightening, direction. The engine should drop more rpm and may begin to stumble. You are now too lean, and this is your baseline to begin tuning.
4) Now begin turning the screw in the CCW direction. First take out the last 1/4 turn that made it drop rpm. From here, continue backing the screw out CCW, reduce your adjustments to 1/8 turn at the time. Pause after each change! and listen. Continue this until the engine sounds the best and is smooth, at the highest rpm. It's tuned.
Note that if you go too far in the CCW direction, the drop in the rpm is less pronounced than it was on the lean side. If you keep turning it out CCW and can't tell any difference in the engine you've gone far enough, maybe too far. The point of reference is from the first step, where it's too tight. If you're not sure if you went too far, screw it back in until it stumbles again, and repeat the procedure. The key is taking your time and listening with every change. Once you've found it's happy place you can add 1/8 turn CCW or stop there, the carb is tuned.

This may assist you in visualizing what's going on: the amount of air coming in is the same. The end of the mixture screw is tapered, and in a small passageway where the gas for idle is trying to get into the engine. The tighter the screw is, the more that taper blocks the gas. So to the right, tightening= a leaner mix, unscrewing it left pulls the taper back, allowing more gas to pass through to the engine= richer.

"The other bolt in the intake is a source. May take a couple days soaking in PB blaster to get loose"

If you remove the carb first for safety....and you have access to a oxy-fuel torch...heat the plug to a dull red and remove the torch and spray the plug with a water bottle. It will break free with ease. Be sure to use a small tip on your torch...you don't want to melt it. I've used this method without fail for several years now. Great for removing O2 sensors. Picked up a used Henrob-Dillon-Detroit Torch which is great for tight spots.

 

[Reid64f100]

Thanks. I worked on it some this morning. Went and got a few things I needed. First thing i did was take the spark plugs out and clean them and reset the gaps to the gap in the operators manual of .030. and replaced the fuel filters was able to get it cranked and get it running without the choke. From there i adjusted the timing. I stuck with the 4 degrees listed in the operators manual for now. was able to get it idling good with that. Then i adjusted the curb idle screw to lower the rpms to the specified rpms in the manual which was 475 for the standard transmission. Idled pretty smooth after that. I drove it around the neighborhood and it did fairly well in first. however when i got in second it stuttered a little getting on the gas. Eventually it did kind of catch up but its hard to tell because my driving room is limited and i didnt feel comfortable getting it out on the road yet. I did turn the screw in slowly until it stumbled some and the back it out like you said. As I was driving every couple of laps i would come in and turn the screw out about 1/4 of a turn. may have helped a little but it was still stumbling a bit in second. I also noticed a metallic rattling sound from the muffler. Im wondering if a baffle or something might be damage and could be causing decreased flow that might be part of the problem. Also wondering if I should put a new filter in the oil bath air filter. Another thing I noticed is that when i got it running good i checked the timing again and the TDC mark on the balancer was running well in front of the timing tag but would return to the tab when throttle was applied. I thought that this was supposed to occur in the opposite way. as in the timing mark should be at the tab at idle and the when gas was applied the mark should advance. Even if the muffler isnt an issue with how its running I would like to replace it so that awful sound will stop. Any suggestions on replacements that may sound better but aren't super obnoxious.

 

[Frank]

Sounded great on my all-stock 300. Not loud, just "present", a good tone. Made in Virginia USA by Walker. I've got it still, it's off the vehicle now. You can have it, but with shipping it may be better to get the new one.

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Is the stumbling when you first apply the gas after the shift?

 

[Reid64f100]

After I apply the gas. thought it might also be the acceleration pump. Still getting a occasional pop out of carb if i move the mixture in or out. Where i have it right now it doesnt seem to happen. Also getting a slight Gen light glow at idle. Is that normal? Its not all the way on just barley visible.

 

[Frank]

After I apply the gas. thought it might also be the acceleration pump. Still getting a occasional pop out of carb if i move the mixture in or out. Where i have it right now it doesnt seem to happen. Also getting a slight Gen light glow at idle. Is that normal? Its not all the way on just barley visible.

Accelerator pump- good possibility. Popping out of carb always = lean mixture and/or late timing. It will likely run better if you add a few* of timing.
The adjustment screw on the carb only affects idle and very light throttle.
You can (and should, for max throttle response, power and economy) do the same progressive adjustment with the timing you did with the mixture. Add 2* of base advance and drive it for a day or so. Repeat until power stops improving, or you hear pinging or it won't crank-over hot. If you hear light pinging, retard it 2* from there and remember the #. This is the new correct timing for that engine. Old engines don't have the same spec as new, most run better with more base timing advance.
The gen light glowing at low rpm is normal.

 

[Reid64f100]

I will play around with it some next week. Starting a 4 day stretch at the hospital tomorrow. Ordered some new spark plug wires today. Noticed they were looking long in the tooth and probably not the best quality to begin with. Also got a new muffler coming in. I inspected the one that is on the truck and realized that it was probably homemade. My grandfather had a friend that could make dang near about anything. Just cuz he could doesnt mean he should have lol. Ill get these parts installed and mess around with the timing a bit more and see what happens. I feel im close to getting it dialed in. Thank yall for yalls help so far.

 

[Reid64f100]

Update. Replaced the spark plug wires and adjusted the timing a little. Running great so far. No backfires or early ignition. running great in second no chugging. Haven't had a chance to open it up yet because of weather. Hoping to get a chance this weekend. Now to adjust the brakes and replace the muffler that is making a terrible noise. I would like to get some updated LED headlights and looking at getting a new set of tires as well. any suggests are welcome. Also it sticks going from 1st to 2nd if you don't just let it fall where it wants to. Wondering if anybody has any ideas about that problem.