200ci performance ? or lack of...

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

Im new here so be gentle..

Anyway, I have a 65 mustang Coupe with a 200ci with a c4 transmission.

The engine has never been rebuilt and has about 175000 miles on it.

Ive had it tuned so it would pass emmisions here in colorado.

When I first got it (originally a maryland car..then purchased from texas) it ran ok....very rich..when I changed the plugs I noticed very bad fouling...black, black, black. The exhaust pipe is quite sooted as well.

I had it tuned at another shop and they leaned it out a bit after my cylenoid went bad...and that has eliminated some of the soot and carbon that it used to belch out when being started.

This leads me to my point, ive had two garages (one was a classic mustang specialty shop) adjust the engine and the thing is a complete dog! Now im not expecting v8 like performance, but on the highway around 60mph you hit the kickdown, and you get nothing..the engine raps up, but no power seems to be being transfered.

My question is...Is the standard stock configuration of the 200 in a 65 mustang that poor of a performer? What vehicle of today would you compare it too. I have a little 2.0 in a 2001 beetle that would litterally blow the doors off my stang...is that right?

Other then the poor power, the engine runs great..doesnt miss...idles fine...and sounds strong with one key turn starts...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Anonymous]

Well the stock configuration of the Ford 200-6 will give you about 70hp to the ground (if not less) in stock trim.

However thats at a fairly low rpm for a gas engine, about 4200 (?) rpm

the torque is what the engine really produces which makes it quite a work horse.

I also belive its the engines lack of power that makes it last as long as it dose.

Hope I didnt give you any incorrect facts

 

[MustangSix]

It's a very low performance engine in stock form. 70 RWHP is about what you can expect and nearly any current econobox will outrun it. OTOH, compared to a 200 cubic inch Model A, it makes over twice the hp and delivers much better economy, so in historical perspective, it's not that bad.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks, that was what I was looking for...i just needed to know that that was how it was supposed to run..

I had nothing to compare it with other then my 68 nova i had in highschool...it had a straight Six in it and it ran like a bat out of hell.

So i guess now i ned to start figuing out how to get more out of it...I guess thats the fun part...

 

[wallaka]

Well, you've come to the right place then. This forum has the most experienced small-six operators on the web (excluding myself). I am constantly amazed by the depth and breadth of knowledge I find here. Anything you can think of, from turbos to over 200-hp alloy head monsters has been covered. These guys are friendly and helpful too, which is rare. Hope we can help you.

-kevin

 

[t-west]

AND, what these guys will tell you (as they've told us all) is that if you want performance, pick up the Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook at http://falconperformance.sundog.net/ and plan which mods you'll want to make to get performance. Also, they'll tell you to visit Mike at FSPP (http://www.fordsixparts.com/) to pick up some parts.

If you haven't had the transmission worked on and you plan to, a new torque converter may help -- at least that's what my transmission shop says.

--tom

 

[Anonymous]

upgrade the ignition, i did and it made a big difference in the way it turned on, throttle response, mileage, etc. i would highly recommend the petronix wires and flamethrower 2 coil. maybe an msd box after you do some more upgrades. also make sure that your fuel system is in good shape. i changed out my old carb for a new stock one 2 weeks ago and dang, much more seat of the pants now. the good thing is that these cars are very easy to work on and most people can bolt on parts themselves.

 

[Anlushac11]

8)

Once you get the engine tuning sorted out you would be suprised at what a set of gears will do to wake up the car.

The 200 I6 in stock form is about equal to the 4 cylinder Fox body Mustangs but has bunch more low end torque. The problem is we usually get ecomomy minded gearsets which do not instill a perfromance type acceleration.

Most choose a blend of economy and performance, something around a 3.30"1 seems popular.

Since you have driven a I6 Nova and liked it you know what kind of performance can be had, the Mustang works the same way.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually another question I had would be...Would changing the jets help considering the car was built east coast, and now its up in the thin air of Denver CO? But yes, the carb probably needs a rebuild, or replaced.

I just find it hard to believe that a car made back then when the speed limit was 70 has difficulty running comfortably at that speed..much less even trying to get the car up to that speed..if there is any type of hill..forget about it...and im not talking about a big incline either.

 

[MustangSix]

Cars sold in high altitudes were specifically tuned to run there. Carbs are not as forgiving as EFI when you move them from sea level to Denver. You will need to change the jets and timing to mountain spec.

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone know what the timing should be set at for a 5280 ft?

And where would you pick up a altitude kit for an old 200ci? Checker? pep boys? Autozone....or would I have to go through a specialty shop?

Actually I dont even know what kind of Carb I have..argggg

 

[hasa68mustang]

I remember reading an article that AK Miller changed the jets and tuned the carb and ended up with 15+ RWHP I dont remembder where I read it, Ill try looking for it. There are endless possibilites if you have the money. I remember driving my car stock and thought I would see how fast this thing would go.... a whole 96 mph and it was doing that for a good 10 seconds that was at 4300 rpms if I remember correctly, now I have a gas hog of a carb and a better ignition, bigger valves, headers, an exhaust, AND A CHROME AIR CLEANER!!! The most I have revved it to was 5400 and it would still keep going so top speed was greatly increased, and now I think I might be able to take a few cars! oh and a car that is comparable.... I did a brake job on it but I dont remember the exact year I think 91 pontiac gran le mans, I am pretty sure you could take it... I test drove it and went to take off and thought it had stalled, and realized it was still going, I then put it to the floor and it was terrible... but dont get tempted to race a civic... what I figred out is if they rev you just laugh and shake your head back and fourth, like as if you wouldnt bother wasting your gas on him.... just some suggestions from me...

 

[MustangSix]

You should have an 1100 Autolite carb. Call Pony CArbs and ask about a High Altitude replacement.

On the timing, two things. First make sure the advance diaphragm is good and the line isn't leaking. This distributor only has vacuum advance, so if that goes bad, performance really suffers. That one single thing contributes to poor performance and bad mileage more than any single item on the older cars. Then bump the timing to as much as 14 degrees BTDC.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mustang Six,

Hmm not familiar with the advance diaphragm...is that something I can check , or do I have to have a shop look at it?

I knew this site would be helpful

 

[Anonymous]

You have come to the right place. I have been deeply involved in cars for my entire life and have never found a more well behaved knowledgable bunch of car guys anywhere. If you ask your questions they will be answered with accurate answers and no BS. Good luck, Raymond

 

[Anonymous]

I have a 65 mustang Coupe with a 200ci with a c4 transmission. Ive had it tuned so it would pass emmisions here in colorado.

Holy crap...you got to do emissions testing in CO on a 1965???

Do you have antique or historic tags available to you?

Cheers,
Steve-O

 

[WhitePony]

Strams,

I guess one main question that needs to be asked is how concerned are you with keeping the engine looking bone stock/original? If you don't mind making changes, replacing that load-o-matic distributor with a late 70's Duraspark II electronic distributor is pretty much accepted by all as one of the best upgrades that you can do. It's a reletively inexpensive and easy to install upgrade too. It will add a mechanical advance and the smoothness of an electronic ignition.

Kris

 

[Anonymous]

Im not too concerned with keeping the engine orginal. Im looking at more of a restomod. I want the car to look orginal, but have some nice newer functionality...some decent power for one would be nice.. Im not looking to race the thing, but decent accelration on the higway would be nice..and safer!

Anyone had any luck with the Ignitor II electronic ignition? They are fairly cheap, and easy to install..or so Ive heard? Seems the majority here recomend the fords duraspark from a junkyard? Any difference?

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Strams:

And welcome to the Forum. Before you go any further let me recommend that your take a minute or two to consider what you have and to understand it. By that I mean, your engine is designed with a Load-a-matic ignition system. The system is a load sensitive, vacuum advance only distributor and an Autolite 1100 carb with a Spark Control Valve (SCV) specifically designed to send a modified vacuum signal to the carb. There are two stickies at the top of this forum describing the function of the Load-a-matic system.

You have two ways to go- one is to get the most from your stock system. The other is to move on to a newer, and possibly better system.

Changing the distributor to a later DuraSpark II system and keeping the stock, SCV carb, which does not have a normal ported vacuum signal source, which the DSII needs is a mixed system and neither will work optimally, or as designed. The same is true the other way. Can it be done? Yes, but requires specific tuning and compromise.

To get the most from the 1st way, you must determine that the entire Load-a-matic system is working as designed; SCV in the carb, vacuum hose to distiributor vacuum cannister, vacuum cannister, and internal vacuum advance mechanism. Once that is done, consider optimizing your initial advance setting (this is critical for high altitude performance), tune your carbs low speed air screw for highest vacuum, make sure the adjustments on the carb are set for high altitude and there are no vacuum leaks. This is the time to consider stepping up to a Petronix Ignitor. OR, to make a committment to move up to a DSII and a compatible, later carb.

Many have had good results with the original system- cleaned, rebuilt and tuned properly. Many here have had good experiences with the Ignitor. If you want to stay stock appearing, this is the way to go.

Also know that most Denver area six cylinder, automatic Mustangs came with a 3.2:1 rearend gear. That was done to compensate for the loss of power due to the thin air of high altitude and for the passes. This original east coast car probably has a 3.00:1 gear. Assuming your car is still original you can check both build location and axle ratio by looking at the Vehicle ID plate on the lock face of the drivers side door. You can buy a Shop Manual from several sources, or report your findings here for deciphering.

Your car is also sounding pretty asthmatic. I'd be inclined to do a thorough check of filters, pumps, hoses, and exhaust systems. Upgrading your exhaust system should be one of the 2nd things you spend money on. A good tune up is always 1st.

I'll be away from the forum for the next couple of weeks, but others here have been "Down this road" and will be glad to help you. Enjoy the journey.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

175,000 and never rebuilt! now this may account for a lot of your performance issues. While not a speed demon, the 200 with a c-4 would get down the road in pretty good shape.Metals and lubes back then however were designed for a life span of around 100K, then it was pretty much time for a top end at least!
I had a 64 Futura/200 -C4 and it impressed everybody that rode in it as it would run 100-110 with out a problem and whip out and pass a car at 65 quite handily. Had a 65 stang and a 66 falcon with 170 3-speeds and they would squall the tires and run 90+ easily. An engine this size however is very touchy about things like tune up condition and/or carb jetting and wear. I also had a 66 Comet convertible with a 200 -2 speed and it would hit 60MPH in a measured 1/4 mile--WITH a 30 mph running start--but it was a beautifull pig.