223 Swap Nightmare. HELP!!!

[Anonymous]

Here's the deal as I've outlined in some previous posts....

I have a 1957 Custom 300 (Fairlane) with a 223 and an auto trans. The 223 had a massive failure several months ago. I found a really nice 223 out of a 1959 F100 that was for sale locally. I bought it and finally got around to doing the swap. Everything looks great mating the engine and trans until the last 1/4". It binds up. We pulled the engine and trans out and tried to mate it up as an assembly and then install the whole thing. It still won't mate up. It looks like the crank is slightly longer on this F100 223.

What can I do????

 

[CoupeBoy]

Was the '59 a manual or automatic?
If it was a manual did you remove the pilot shaft bushing? On some cars the front of the torque converter fits up in the same location as the pilot bushing and if you forget and leave in the bushing you cannot get things to mate up correctly.

Are the torque converter bolt holes lining up with the flexplatebolt holes? Somehow over the years I've never installed a ford automatic but Dad says the little studs that stick out of the front of the torque converter have to be lined up as you are lining up the transmission, otherwise there will be problems.

Are you sure the torque converter is fully 'spun' into the transmission. To do this you have to have the transmission in such a condition as to let you press 'in' on the torque converter while spinning it. The teeth on the torque converter have to engage into the front pump on the transmission. If it is not fully 'spun' into the transmission you can end up damaging the front pump or the 'teeth' on the torque converter if you try to force things together (Dad picked up a '86 t-bird for cheap because the PO had done this with an AOD).

hope some of this helps.
-ron

 

[Anonymous]

Was the '59 a manual or automatic?
If it was a manual did you remove the pilot shaft bushing? On some cars the front of the torque converter fits up in the same location as the pilot bushing and if you forget and leave in the bushing you cannot get things to mate up correctly.

Thanks for the suggestions. What does the pilot shaft bushing look like? I went out and looked at the engine and didn't see anything obvious but I may be missing something.

 

[CoupeBoy]

in an older Ford it looks like a bronze donut.

Look in the end of the crankshaft, there should be a round hole. Now I dont know the correct diameter of a 223 crankshaft hole but in a bent8 or 250/200 it is about an inch and a quarter in diameter (I've never really measured mine so I could be off by as much as 1/4th of an inch). The crank will be steel but the bushing should be brass. If you see a small hole in the back of the crank about 1/2" in diameter there is most likely a bushing still in there.

-ron

 

[Anonymous]

I'll take a look. That's probably what it is because it's stopping about 1/4 in short of mating up.

For my next stupid question...how do you get it out? Do you just fish something in there and pop it out?

 

[CoupeBoy]

there are several methods
Some people use a slide hammer with a 'hook' on it. you stick the hook through the hole, and hold it against an edge, and pull the hammer, move to a different spot on the bushing and pull again until it comes out. I've also used a bolt for my 'hook'. Most parts stores will loan you (for a price) a slide hammer if you dont have one.

Some people claim you can fill the cavity full of grease and then shove (hammer) a bolt into the hole and the hydraulic pressure of the bolt pushing against the grease will push the bushing out, of course as it moves out you will need to put in more grease, and try to get a bolt that fills as much of the hole as possible. (Ive never tried this method)

Or get a bolt that the hex head barely fits through the pilot hole, put the hex head into the hole, shove a peice of metal (maybe another bolt, maybe a peice of scrap you have laying around) into the rest of the hole so the hex head stays against one side. Then use a large socket (big enough so that the bushing can be pulled inside it) and slide it over the threaded portion of the bolt. put a flat washer onthe bolt, then a nut and start threading the nut on. It should pull the bushing out.

I'm sure there are more methods but those are the ones I use or know of.
-ron

 

[277 I6]

i have try the hyd. way & it did not work for me. what i did was get a bolt larger then the hole in the bushing grind tthe first 2or3 theards to a taper then 4 slots up theards so it look like a tap i run in to bushing tel it takes it out if you had a big tap you could use it

 

[addo]

Make 100% certain there is a bushing there! I still remember late 2001 when a former board member removed the pilot bushing, only to find he'd actually not had one - and just ruined his crank instead...

 

[flatford6]

It has been a long while since I did one of these but here goes. I think that 1957 was the first year they used a standard sheet metal flex plate instead of the thicker one with the riveted on mounts for the bolted together converter used before. 57 was the first year of the welded converter and the second year of the water cooled trans fluid plan.

Anyway first thing is that you have the right flywheel bolts, the short ones with the grooves in the heads. Too long bolts will go into the crank too far and possibly hit the back of the main bearing cap causing problems! I think there was a thin reinforcement plate between the bolt heads and the flexplate. You need the correct standard short flexplate bolts with thin heads or they can hold the converter out.

You have probably already determined that you have or haven't got a pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Most are made out of bronze and are brown colored although a sealed ball bearing was also used.

There are two ways to install this transmission. With the trans, converter, and bell housing assembled and installed as a unit on the engine , or with the converter and bell housing installed on the engine and then inserting the trans. Either one works ok.

With your problem, I would first try to test install the converter on the flexplate without the bell housing for a trial fit. The four studs thould enter the four holes in the flex plate and the two drain plugs on the converter must line up in the holes for them in the flexplate. If everything seems to go in ok then you can bolt it on, install the bell housing and then install the trans on the bell housing.

The converter drives the front pump of the trans through two ears that stick out of the back of the converter and engage the inside gear of the pump which is inside of the seal. If the drive ears of the converter line up perfectlly with the drive lugs on the pump gear they will prevent the trans from seating completely on the bell housing or mounting surface on the back of the engine depending on how you are putting it together. The best way is to look inside the trans front seal and set the lugs vertically. Then, turn the engine until the ears on the converter are horozontal. This will allow everything to engage right. The transmission must be put in carefully and straight or the ears on the converter will tear the seal and it will leak profusely.

If installing the trans , converter and bellhousing as a unit, make sure to install the converter with the ears horozontal and the gear lugs vertical push the converter in as fars as possible so the splines line up then rock the converter back and forth about 30 degrees each way to seat everything. When installing the assembed unit make sure the converter does not move forward and become un engaged from the pump drive.

Good luck.

 

[Daves55Courier]

Thats probably it. I would bet the farm you dont have the front pump dogs lined up for inserting the converter hub. Look straight down into the front of the front pump and turn the ring so that the pegs will MISS the dogs on the back of the converter. Then she'll slide in real nice. Be REAL careful not to force them together as it is easy to break off the dogs on the back of the converter hub.

 

[Anonymous]

Spent the day working on it yesterday. There was, indeed, the bronze bushing in there. I tapped some threads in it and drive a large bolt in. It popped out in about 10 seconds! Thanks for the tips, guys. We got the engine installed in about 4 hours. It's still a pain to get everything lined up on these things.

Now for the bad news...
I neve saw this engine run when I bought it. It was on an engine stand. I checked compression and it was fine. Once we got everything put back together on the engine, we loaded it with fluids and the water pump immediately leaked like crazy. I am hoping it's just the pump and not an issue with the block. Based on the location of the leak, I'm pretty sure it's just the pump. Luckily, they are only about $30. The carb also leaks a lot of gas and runs horrible. I am still deciding whether to rebuild it or buy one already rebuilt. I've had good and bad experiences with both options. Also, the one on there has a glass bowl, but hte top "clip" for the bowl is missing. It wasn't leaking in that location, but I still need to igure out where to get one of those clips. Any suggestions?

I am desperately hoping that a water pump and carb will be all that I need to get her running again.

Until next weekend...

 

[CoupeBoy]

Glad to hear that was the only issue keeping things from 'coming together'. Sure things are postponed if you have to replace the water pump or rebuild a carburator but when the work on those is done, its one more thing you shouldnt have to worry about for a while.

Sorry no advice on where to find your carb parts.

-ron

 

[Anonymous]

As far as the carb clip goes, I went to the carb shop that had been in busnsess for 30 years and found the parts in their cast-away pile. Price=free!

 

[Anonymous]

Whelp, we finally got everyting squared away - ALMOST!!

The new water pump went on without a hitch as expected. I got a carb from NAPA with a lifetime warranty because I really didn't feel like messing with rebuilding another one right now. The core charge was only $6, so I'm going to keep the old carb and rebuild it later.

Now for the "Almost"

I took her on a test drive this afternoon for about 50 miles. Everything ran well, but I noticed some smoke coming from underneath a little bit. I got back to the shop and shut it down. Within a few seconds ,abotu 1/2 quart of oil had dumped out...we forgot to change the rear main seal. I even had the new seal in my trunk!

So, now I have to set aside another weekend to pull the engine again and replace the rear main. Any suggestions? Is it faster to pull the engine, tranny, or both as an assembly?

This stinks and I'm feeling a little stupid right now.