xpcoupe221
New member
I just scored a ported 250 2v head for my 221 project & need to buy some valve springs to suit the cam, specs are 222@ .050 & 465 lift. Will 289/302 work if not who can I buy these from. Thanks
250 2v head valve springs
- Thread starter xpcoupe221
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xpcoupe221
New member
Its a reground std cam done by camtech in sydney, I asked him about valve springs & he didnt know where to get any to suit. If you ask suppliers for parts for a 221 6 cyl you get the look of why the hell are you even bothering, hence why im asking on here.
No one in Australasia supports short valve springs for this kind of engine, you have to look to the Toyota 2T/3T valve springs or copy the many different varieties of valve spring Classic Inlines listed. Check with MustangGeezer's last post on the difficulties of getting valve springs for even the early Classic Inlines alloy heads. This is a Windsor/ Small six problem which really hasn't been addressed. It occurs becasue Ford engines cannot have the spring base broached like on some other engines, and ultimate power suffers because of restricted lift due to a precieved lack of deep pistons in the US. Without deep dish 15.5 to 27.9 cc X-flow I6 pistons, 490 thou lift riskes piston contact on every I6 except the US 250 non cross flow. It can take a 590 lift gorss lift at the valve becasue of its 103 thou piston to deck short fall. It is equivalent to running a 22.9 cc deep dish X-flow Ford 250 piston anyway...thats why Ford US did it, they din't want to spend a cent on new pistons or a new cylinder head. Contact risks on the 144/170/188/200/221 are why they don't supply longer valves, valve springs, and 1.73:1 shaft rockers for our little sixes.
Not ratting on Kelford Camtech, but they actually don't support the non cross flow at all, the reason being that the cams being offered are now pretty limited because of this histrocially short ass valve spring on a head which cannot be broached to increase the installed valve spring height to a reasonable level for modern 1.6, or 1.65:1 roller rockers. Clay Smith, Schneider and Competition Cams profiles all restrict lift to 490 on non cross flow 144 to 250 Fords, and don't go nuts like the old Aussie cam grinders (Crow, the long gone Waggot were exceptions).
The small six head was birthed from the team that made the FE big block, and the real solution on that engine was to run much bigger rocker arm rations, 1.73:1 on some FE's gave them long valves, good rocker gear, and the dished the pistons for clearance on big duration and lift cams. Engineer Stirett, who did the 1962 Small block 221-260-289 Ford V8, reverted back to 1.6;1 rocker ratios, and the small six never moved on. The 80's, 90's and 00's revisions gave the Small block Ford 1.7:1 rocker ratios and e303 cmas that pushed over that 490 thou gross lift barrier, and pistons after the ill fated 1986 5.0 then got clearanced for some really good lift. The 342 cubic inch 5.6 T3 Tickford engine pushed the valve springs too the limit, but at least the GT40P head was designed to accept taller valves and valve springs. The 200/221/250 I6 is still living in the shaddows of the X-flow, FE and the last of the Windsor US engines rebuilt as Synergy engines by Tickford/Prodrive engineers in Australian XR8/250 Pursuit/ Rebel/ T1-T3's. These engines moved away from the restrictions in being a lower tier low performance plodder in America. The HSC/HSO 2.3 and 2.5 moved right away to the taller valves and SBF rocker shafts and some pretty good high swirl, almost as good as the Cleveland headed X-flow 200/250 six.
Once you get away from
a) 4.78" tall valves with 1.55" installed heights,
b) shallow dish 5.5 cc or less pistons
c) and 1.5:1 rocker ratios
The whole world of In line small sixes kind of opens up to x-flow/FE/SBF levles of specific horsepower per cubic inch and you get the power with reduced expense.
The way Holden guys to slove a) it was to take 265 thou off the spring pad, and put in good 283 or 307 Small block valve springs, and use the nice long V8 253/308/304 valves which are really long, and allow something with a Waggot 391 or HX LJ 202 cam to floriush with roller rockers.
For Australians, using Holden YT 3300 1.75/1.5" or YT 308 1.78/1.5"valves in 5.16" length from Yella Terra allows longer valve springs on spacered up rocker shafts. You have to go to 380 thou longer pushrods, 380 pads under the rocker pedastools to allow the 1.9" srpings to be used. That requires a modified rocker cover spacer or cut and shut of flitched rocker cover to clear the valve gear.
Then you are able to get some deeper dish pistons of about 15.5 cc (the stock 3.3 X-Flow pistons from 1976 to 1992) and then you can shoot for an X-flow cam grind on a non cross flow master. The power restrictions on non cross flows are realted to lift restriction from a lack of 1.73:1 rocker shafts. Port flow and ultimate power levels are lift restricted.
Not ratting on Kelford Camtech, but they actually don't support the non cross flow at all, the reason being that the cams being offered are now pretty limited because of this histrocially short ass valve spring on a head which cannot be broached to increase the installed valve spring height to a reasonable level for modern 1.6, or 1.65:1 roller rockers. Clay Smith, Schneider and Competition Cams profiles all restrict lift to 490 on non cross flow 144 to 250 Fords, and don't go nuts like the old Aussie cam grinders (Crow, the long gone Waggot were exceptions).
The small six head was birthed from the team that made the FE big block, and the real solution on that engine was to run much bigger rocker arm rations, 1.73:1 on some FE's gave them long valves, good rocker gear, and the dished the pistons for clearance on big duration and lift cams. Engineer Stirett, who did the 1962 Small block 221-260-289 Ford V8, reverted back to 1.6;1 rocker ratios, and the small six never moved on. The 80's, 90's and 00's revisions gave the Small block Ford 1.7:1 rocker ratios and e303 cmas that pushed over that 490 thou gross lift barrier, and pistons after the ill fated 1986 5.0 then got clearanced for some really good lift. The 342 cubic inch 5.6 T3 Tickford engine pushed the valve springs too the limit, but at least the GT40P head was designed to accept taller valves and valve springs. The 200/221/250 I6 is still living in the shaddows of the X-flow, FE and the last of the Windsor US engines rebuilt as Synergy engines by Tickford/Prodrive engineers in Australian XR8/250 Pursuit/ Rebel/ T1-T3's. These engines moved away from the restrictions in being a lower tier low performance plodder in America. The HSC/HSO 2.3 and 2.5 moved right away to the taller valves and SBF rocker shafts and some pretty good high swirl, almost as good as the Cleveland headed X-flow 200/250 six.
Once you get away from
a) 4.78" tall valves with 1.55" installed heights,
b) shallow dish 5.5 cc or less pistons
c) and 1.5:1 rocker ratios
The whole world of In line small sixes kind of opens up to x-flow/FE/SBF levles of specific horsepower per cubic inch and you get the power with reduced expense.
The way Holden guys to slove a) it was to take 265 thou off the spring pad, and put in good 283 or 307 Small block valve springs, and use the nice long V8 253/308/304 valves which are really long, and allow something with a Waggot 391 or HX LJ 202 cam to floriush with roller rockers.
For Australians, using Holden YT 3300 1.75/1.5" or YT 308 1.78/1.5"valves in 5.16" length from Yella Terra allows longer valve springs on spacered up rocker shafts. You have to go to 380 thou longer pushrods, 380 pads under the rocker pedastools to allow the 1.9" srpings to be used. That requires a modified rocker cover spacer or cut and shut of flitched rocker cover to clear the valve gear.
Then you are able to get some deeper dish pistons of about 15.5 cc (the stock 3.3 X-Flow pistons from 1976 to 1992) and then you can shoot for an X-flow cam grind on a non cross flow master. The power restrictions on non cross flows are realted to lift restriction from a lack of 1.73:1 rocker shafts. Port flow and ultimate power levels are lift restricted.
See post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72830&p=560414#p560414
What is you at lash duration, the total duration as per SAE method. Is it a 30/70 cam with 280 degrees duration? Then you'll have to look at tier 6 and 7. I fits 275 or below, go with this, CSC-200-STY 170/200/250ci from tier 6 .
http://classicinlines.com/proddetail.as ... SC-STY-SPG.
If its over 275, go tier 7, the CSC-200-TOY 170/200/250ci
But you'll need a smaller valve guide and Viton .530, the early pre 1968 Ford guide for the last of the short deck 200's like xrwagon's.
Modern valve quality doesn't need the bigger valve guides of the 68 to 1992 Aussie non cross flow and x-flow engines, it hurts cylinder head flow figure anyway.
Check for Pioneer single valve springs, or the white box springs Clay Smith recomend. In one of my posts,
http://classicinlines.com/springs.asp
The CI springs in tier 5, 6 and 7 will work as long as you use the smaller American SI valve with smaller half inch Viton seals and smaller valve guides. All US engines don't use the updated late 289/302W bigger valve guides of the Aussie 188/221/250's after 1968-1975. Ford Australia did that to phase in and simplify its better quality US Windsor based engine parts, just like the 0 oz version of early 5 bolt bell SBF 160 teeth flywheel, the Toploader and C4 transmision and V8 2-bbl carb, temperature senders and air cleaners, air cleaner housings. The 221 I6 conrods are practically 289, Boss 302 items anyway.
It's the key to getting a better spring that won't bind. Contact Does10s regards what he has in the part numbers. He has used some pretty good springs over the years in his 250 turbo in line non cross flow.
A Lot of info in this. Give Cam Tech the info from this link, and ask for a "risk excluded" suggestion. Or email FSD (FalconSedanDelivery) and tell him X sent you. You won't get better advise anywhere on the net. (Faron knows his stuff).
I've spoken three times at length with Camtech. They don't support the non cross flow becasue the aftermarket isn't supporting these engines down here. The aftermarket is starting to in America. So your solution is American.
I want to fully endorse Camtech. Awesome guys, they are dedicated, but 12,000 2V 250 heads made from 1971 to 1975 in Australia just aren't enough to finance a revolution. 25 million or so small Ford Six engines made between 1960 to 1983 is. So is the Classic Inlines head. The stuff that fits that is the solution to making the Aussie 221 with a 250 2v head bark like a wild wolf.
What is you at lash duration, the total duration as per SAE method. Is it a 30/70 cam with 280 degrees duration? Then you'll have to look at tier 6 and 7. I fits 275 or below, go with this, CSC-200-STY 170/200/250ci from tier 6 .
http://classicinlines.com/proddetail.as ... SC-STY-SPG.
If its over 275, go tier 7, the CSC-200-TOY 170/200/250ci
But you'll need a smaller valve guide and Viton .530, the early pre 1968 Ford guide for the last of the short deck 200's like xrwagon's.
Modern valve quality doesn't need the bigger valve guides of the 68 to 1992 Aussie non cross flow and x-flow engines, it hurts cylinder head flow figure anyway.
Check for Pioneer single valve springs, or the white box springs Clay Smith recomend. In one of my posts,
http://classicinlines.com/springs.asp
The CI springs in tier 5, 6 and 7 will work as long as you use the smaller American SI valve with smaller half inch Viton seals and smaller valve guides. All US engines don't use the updated late 289/302W bigger valve guides of the Aussie 188/221/250's after 1968-1975. Ford Australia did that to phase in and simplify its better quality US Windsor based engine parts, just like the 0 oz version of early 5 bolt bell SBF 160 teeth flywheel, the Toploader and C4 transmision and V8 2-bbl carb, temperature senders and air cleaners, air cleaner housings. The 221 I6 conrods are practically 289, Boss 302 items anyway.
It's the key to getting a better spring that won't bind. Contact Does10s regards what he has in the part numbers. He has used some pretty good springs over the years in his 250 turbo in line non cross flow.
A Lot of info in this. Give Cam Tech the info from this link, and ask for a "risk excluded" suggestion. Or email FSD (FalconSedanDelivery) and tell him X sent you. You won't get better advise anywhere on the net. (Faron knows his stuff).
I've spoken three times at length with Camtech. They don't support the non cross flow becasue the aftermarket isn't supporting these engines down here. The aftermarket is starting to in America. So your solution is American.
I want to fully endorse Camtech. Awesome guys, they are dedicated, but 12,000 2V 250 heads made from 1971 to 1975 in Australia just aren't enough to finance a revolution. 25 million or so small Ford Six engines made between 1960 to 1983 is. So is the Classic Inlines head. The stuff that fits that is the solution to making the Aussie 221 with a 250 2v head bark like a wild wolf.
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