All Small Six Problem Finding Valve Springs

[Fred C]

Hello, my 200 ci engine is apart at my builders shop and about ready for the camshaft. I have researched and found a couple of Comp cams but the one I wanted is a Kit K65-235-4 with a 252 Grind but is not avail till the end of Nov 27, 2023 and I need it sooner. The other Comp is a Kit as well K65-336-4 with a 260 Grind but reviews about the Kit says the parts description isn't what they receive in the kits. Customers were very unhappy.

I settled on the Clay Smith 07-006 grind # H-256-8-B and Clay Smith Hydraulic Lifters ) non oiling). I ordered these from Summit Racing yesterday. They did not have the valve springs for Clay Smith or any other Brands to work with this camshaft on their website. I called Clay Smith Cam company this morning and they verified the same. Clay Smith didn't have valve springs for their camshaft. I went to Jegs Racing website and ordered the Crower Valve Springs 258-68147-12 that was talked about in an earlier forum and then I received a email stating the springs have been discontinued. I checked other sites and confirmed that.

I called Summit back and discussed this with one of their techs and he spent some time looking for a comparable spring to Crower. The best he could suggest was
a Comp spring # CCA-903-12 but I'm hesitant about ordering till I have someone with more knowledge than me says it will work. I want to use the stock retainers as well. So hopefully someone can guide me to what Springs will work with the Clay Smith Camshaft.

Thanks.
Fred C

 

[frozenrabbit]

What year is your 200? I believe early 200's have the 2 piece style retainers. You should definitely use a single piece retainer.

I didn't swap my cam, but I did have 1.75" 1.5" valves installed, used stock rated 302 v8 springs, and single piece retainers.

 

[pmuller9]

I called Summit back and discussed this with one of their techs and he spent some time looking for a comparable spring to Crower. The best he could suggest was
a Comp spring # CCA-903-12 but I'm hesitant about ordering till I have someone with more knowledge than me says it will work. I want to use the stock retainers as well. So hopefully someone can guide me to what Springs will work with the Clay Smith Camshaft.

The Clay Smith 07-006 grind # H-256-8-B cam is calling out for 120# seat pressure.
The Crower 68147-12 valve springs would have been way too weak.

The Comp 903-12 springs fit the stock retainers and the spring locator cast in the head.
They are the stock replacement springs for the 240/300 six and have been used many times.
Depending on the installed height, you should get around 100# of seat pressure but the 293 spring rate will work with the Clay smith cam you ordered as long as you are not going to rev the engine way past 5500 rpm.

The springs that were last used on a similar cam profile was the Crane 96803-12 but they are no longer available.

 

[Fred C]

Thanks guys this helps a lot. I just placed a order to Summit for the springs. I will now be able to take the cam, lifters and springs to my builder om Monday and I'm hoping he will be able to provide the locks, seals and whatever else is required..

By the way frozenrabbit it is a 1966 year model.

 

[drag-200stang]

Make sure that you or they take the pin and cam spacer off the old cam, they do not come with the new cam and the inside bevel on the cam spacer goes toward the cam journal.
The cam needs to be degreeed on these engines with a dial indicator and degree wheel.

 

[Fred C]

I will pass this info on to my builder since he has only been in business for 45 years building engines but who knows he is getting kind old - might be forgetting things - lol . Hope not though?

 

[427John]

I don't know off the top of my head what the installed height of Falcon six valve springs are, but if they are close the ~1.78 of SBF's then a good low budget spring that used to be the hot ticket for them is the small diameter SBC Z-28 valve spring,back in the 70's and 80's anybody building a SBF that had the 2V heads that didn't have the bigger spring pockets that the 4V heads had used them, it kept them from having to machine for bigger spring pockets. Those springs will handle a little over .500 lift and they let the 302 cubic Z-28 engines rev plenty high.

 

[pmuller9]

I don't know off the top of my head what the installed height of Falcon six valve springs are,

 

[drag-200stang]

The Chilton's book says 1.590'' and on a rebuilt used head off a 68 200 with stock two-piece retainer is 1.620''

 

[427John]

That installed height is more like the Chevy 348-409 and non Ram Air Pontiacs, it makes it tough to make a spring that will handle over .500 lift, as spring pressure requirements go up, with conventional materials the wire diameter that they are wound from gets bigger as pressure goes up so you wind up with a spring that gets to coil bind quicker that limits the lift. The way around that is to use exotic materials so that the wire diameter can stay smaller but that = expensive, beehive springs are another option that are more reasonably priced.

 

[427John]

In the case of Pontiac that issue even drove them to use longer valves in the Ram Air engines to allow the use of a taller valvespring to accommodate the higher lift of the cam and hi ratio rocker arms. Its pretty common for guys cam swapping Pontiacs to have problems with bending pushrods, its usually due to trying to run the 1.65 ratio Ram Air rockers instead of the stock 1.5 rockers in conjunction with a high lift cam and non ram air heads with the shorter valves, they either get into coil bind or run the spring retainer into the top of the valve guide.