250 2v in my boat has exploded!!!

[Anonymous]

Typical ford - the 250 2v in my boat has exploded!!! Started sounding bad... then a frigging big bang which blew one of the welsh plugs out, and its now totally seized up.



Anyway, here's my question: i need to get a replacement engine that i can use the marine sump and dog clutch and existing engine mounts with. Will any other engine fit? Or do i need another 250 2v, which are pretty rare unfortunately.

PS the dog clutch is at the front of the motor (the distributor end).

 

[64xm]

a lot of boats run holden 6's with dog clutch's

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah but i want to use the existing marine sump / dog clutch / engine mounts / etc.

 

[addo]

You need a precrossflow 250 short block to rebuild or swap. You'll probably have to reuse the marine crank. The head will be fine; go easy on the upper bolthole ears for the outer two extractor pipes.

Regards, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't want to have to take the engine apart - all i want to do is unbolt it from the mounts, and swap the marine sump over, and bolt the new engine in. Could i do this with a newer crossflow? The point is that the precrossflows are too old to find in decent condition.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll have your old engine! 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Ha, if you swap me for something that bolts in and works you can have it. I'm in sydney if you're not just kidding.

 

[Anonymous]

well, i'm kind of serious. I've got a 250 - not 2v, but i don't want to give it to you, the mixture isn't set real well... basically the car is just sitting and i don't know how long you'll get out of it, or what the compression is like.

If you have a method of getting it into my ute and your willing to sell... i'd consider. Addo said you would still need the crank, so you may have to fork out and rebuild the engine you have.

If you look at ebay there are a few precrossflow on it. Search for "250". A crossflow would be a better engine money/power wise, i don't know if it would bolt straight in or not. Someone else will though

 

[gassed250]

A crossflow will bolt right in
Just change the valve springs and retainers for some that will cope with the constant revs

 

[Anonymous]

So *which* crossflow engine from which model falcon would be the best engine to get? It has to be carby i'm guessing. Alloyhead or ironhead? I don't know my ford engines all that well.
And is there any REMOTE chance my marine exhaust manifold would still bolt onto the crossflow (on the other side of the head, obviously)?

 

[addo]

The exhaust manifolds will not interchange. I also believe that the nose of a marine crank is different, and that's why it needs swapping into a new motor.

In Sydney try the Falcon clubs for a donor shortblock. Something will arise between the 'Gong and Newie, at reasonable (or minimal) cost. Call Darren on 9524 0860, for starters and he will put you in touch with more people who mess around with Falcons. Otherwise ring John in West Wallsend on 0412 327 489 as he has good contacts in the Northern end of things.

Make sure any engine offered is not a long rod 200. Some people don't know the difference, and the blocks are identical...

Cheers, Adam.

 

[joel510]

I think you'll find the cranks are the same. Most of the long motors in ski boats were unmodifed car engines with marine kits.
I have an EFI X-flow in my boat that also drives from the front of the engine with a dog clutch.
It uses a dog gear which is grub screwed to the crank. You'll have to heat it up to remove it though as they're heated up to fit. I know both the Tawco and Rolco marine kits use this method with their dog clutches.
Your best bet would be to replace the short engine. It'd be the cheapest and most hassell free IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks joel, i think you're on the money. I'll buy a pre-crossflow and replace it. Hopefully the head's ok, i'll take it off and have a look.

Which makes me ask... (embarrased)... how do i get the head off the engine? Is there any trick to it or do i just undo any bolts i can see until its out.
Also, since i'll have to find out sooner or later, what is a grub screw and how do i get it off?

 

[addo]

I love it when I bump a key and it deletes everything I just typed...

Don't take anything apart until a new short motor is in your possession. Plenty of before photographs; they may save your bacon later.

Buy a new timing set from Rollmaster. Part No CS3170 I think. Old number was CS6-188-250 to confirm. You need an ACL "cam change gasket kit" for all this, including the head gasket. When refitting the front timing cover, put it on loose then install the balancer or sleeve, use this to centre the cover's seal on the crankshaft. Nip the bolts up firm, then remove the balancer or sleeve and torque to factory spec.

Head needs to be detorqued in reverse order to tightening. This may make more difference than you imagine. Also consider head studs instead of re-using the bolts; I have seen the bolts fail in re-use. Follow the correct torque sequence for tightening and allow at least a cup of coffee as rest time between torque stages. Overnight wait is better when going from 65 to 75 at the end.

A grubscrew is a small short screw with no enlargement to the head, that secures something to a shaft by jamming against it, or fitting in a recess.

Hope this helps! BTW, I may have a new water pump for $25 if another fellow passes on it.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[joel510]

addo,
the standard timing cover is not used. It is replaced with the dog clutch assy which is cast alloy. This contains the drive dog gear, support bearing and selector. It also has wings for the rear engine mount. The original water pump is also discarded and a blanking plate fitted. An impeller pump driven via a belt draws raw water thru a fitting in the hull. Sends it either thru a heat exchanger in the sump or the exhaust manifold water jacket. This heats the cold water before it enters the bottom of the engine. It the comes out the top and is injected into the exhaust to cool it.

chubs,
It may pay to get someone with a little more experience to give you a hand.
But if you do what Addo said, take lots of pics, sit the engines side by side and swap parts over you should be right.
Your head may also have some damage so get it checked too.
Stay with the 2v tho.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay i'm sure i can figure out how to get the dog clutch swapped over - ive done that before.
But taking the head off, i just undo the bolts in reverse order?
Can anyone recommend a good service manual?

 

[Anonymous]

a Ford factory service manual is great - but like the 2v heads they're getting old and hard to find. I have the gregory's also - which is decent... i wouldn't be trying an engine rebuild off it though. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures...

I was in Supercheap, and there was a book for the 6 which was good from what i saw. it was showing how to lift the engine, i think it was a bit more dumbed down then the gregorys. I can't give you a publications, but they were brightly coloured covers.

 

[addo]

Max Smellory's one will do at a pinch. Incidentally, it has some pics of 2Vs in it... If you really know your way around motors, you only need basic data; there's nothing really weird about these sixes. Well, except for needing an oil pump drive shaft!

I've just shown how little I've had to do with boats.

 

[Anonymous]

OK so my plan is: go buy a book, whip the head off, take it to a head shop to get inspected.
If its ok, then go buy any 250, crossflow or not, and swap the heads and drop it in.
If the heads screwed, weigh up whether to recondition it, or just convert the boat to X-flow.

 

[xdee]

Sell off the 2v and get what you can. Convert it to Xflow and you will never be in this position again. You can find any part you would ever want, anytime, anywhere.