250 X-Flow variances...FAQ needed?

[Greywolf]

Well, looking at my X-Flow (and *sniff* saying goodbye to it for a few weeks as I return to the ship), it appears to be an '85 EFI unit, with an 84DA casting. Would this be an XE or an XF unit?
I have a Ford of Australia XF service manual.
This led me to start pondering...what are the year-to-year differences in the X-Flow? Different carbs, injectors, seals, gasket materials, compression ratios...are there better/worse varieties?
I know there are alloy and iron head versions, and that there are 3 flavors of rear main seal, but beyond that, I only know the limited things expressed by the XF manual.
As the XF manual only gives one procedure for rear main seal installation (press in with "special tool"...definitely not correct for a split rope-style which I think the early castings used?) I worry that I might need to buy an XE manual, a "Gregory's" manual which will include more variants, or a real XF engine!
I know it's a lot of ground to cover, but I've been searching for a while and I'd like to hear some thoughts on all this...especially as I am now making my "round two" list of parts needed from Down Under...
Thanks!
Ben

 

[addo]

The rare 84DA... It came standard with twin exhausts.

Just kidding. Neither is true (rarity or duals). The XF style rear main seal you describe is (I think) just the 5.0 seal. You'll possibly have the larger style 2-piece seal. "AlloyDave" is the expert, but ACL (Automotive Components Limited) also have some good info if you can handle the PDF downloads.

The motor is an XE, and as such will have a slightly different computer to the XF. It also has the Bosch distributor, which is a good unit. Variations over the years mainly had to do with the head chambers.

Many people will tell you the Gregory's (aka Scientific Publications) manual has enough information to get you into trouble, but not back out. I tend to agree, unless you are looking for specific details like clearances or durations. A Ford manual would be better.

Work on it is mostly in the intuitive/commonsense bracket, with adherence to things like torque plate honing, and head bolt issues on an alloy head setup.

Adam.

 

[Greywolf]

Thanks Addo.

I'm less concerned with actual procedures (a water pump is a water pump) than I am with ensuring that I get the best parts on the engine.

Part of that concern is practical--I have to ask for my parts from the other side of the world, so ordering the right part the first time is imperative.

The rest of my concern is speculative--does part A fit in place of part B, and is the difference worth the swap, or should one order part C in the first place.

I found a post that Discokin6 made some time ago, outlining some of the differences in heads from XD-XF. This is a start; but if there is more info out there, I want it! 8)

I'm also trying to find out the pre/post ADR 37 details; I gather this has to do with emissions and swapping from leaded to unleaded fuel. This would also mean my engine is made to run on leaded petrol...so I need hardened valve seats on my list...

Ben

 

[xctasy]

The details are best placed on a timeline and ploted visualy. There is too much to grasp, even if we were really efficient with words!

There is a post I've been looking at tidying up, but it needs a fair amount of visual stuff to make it easier to follow. My stickies seam to confuse a few people, so its better to have them reviewd by a great copy editer.

I'm not a great copy editor!

Just to answer your guestons, all X-flow Falcons from mid 1980 to March 1993 ran alloy heads with inserts. 13 years of engines which will run on unleaded fuel. Ford Austraila service bulletins from 1986 say 1981 to 1985 XD and XE engines don't run on unleaded due to the insert metal being of a lower spec. They were just covering there buts from lawsuits.

Pre Jan 1986 engines do have a lessor quality steel insert than those post Jan 1986. Aussie never got unleaded factory I6's until 1986. In practice, its not an matter of any concern. I ran my Falcon for 8 years on dry propane, without any issues.

If you want to run on US 87 grade gas (our 91 octane unleaded), you will need to find the post 1986 knock sensor equiped engines, which complied with Australian Design Rule 37A, (basically, US 1975 or Germany 1986 spec).

All Falcon XF engines after Jan 1986 to the last Falcon/Nissan Ute utilities of March 1993 ran on US 87 grade. They are good engines, but if you play around with the ignition system or emissions gear, they tend to knock. Gregories #226 manual on XF Falcon sixes, pages 70 to 106, covers the seven differnt types of engine emission system. They are basic, simple systems which can be retro fitted.

If you don't mind running US 93 grade gas (our 96 or 97 unleaded), the earlier leaded fuel engines will ran very well on US 93 octane. They run for years without issues if the head gasket and cooling system are in specification.


The x-flow blocks changed four times.
First was the 76DA,
then the 80DA,
then the 83DA
then the 84DA,
then the 87DA.

The first 76 DAwas a cast iron x-flow, nigh on bomb proof. It runs the same time honoured rope seal found on the US 250, and earlier post 1970 Log headed Aussie 200 and 250's.

The first of the 80DA's were Honda alloy head x-flow, higher compression, sensationally economical. Prone to head gasket failure due to foolish people not following the corrosion inhibitor anti-freeze spec. The block had locating dowles to stop the aloy head fretting ,and minor ( tiny) changes to the water galleries. The 2-bbl Alloy Head II engine came out in mid 1982, and was the same engine with an intake swap.

After 1983, all Alloy Head II and EFI Falcon XE's got blocks with the 83DA code, the first block without a drill hole for the Cortina dipstick. The rear main seal was still the rope seal, and the engine had a new HF5 cylinder head with cut-outs for the EFI injectors, even it the carby was still found in the base model. There were some other changes that justified the 83DA label, possibly to allow the EFI. Valve sizes were the same as the first Alloy Head XD and XE engines. There is still a boss for the rear moutn Cortina dip stick, under the 83da-6015-AA part number.


The 84DA had the new neoprene seal, a 360 degree affair which was easy to change. The bad point was that it tended to leak rather a lot. It's not worth worring about, though. It was a concession to the need to ease service and warranty claims. The block no longer had a boss for the Cortina dip stick, under the engine casting number.


The 87DA was designed to run the Dec 1987 run of OHC crankshafts. The two engines were fitted side by side on the same Broadmedows line. The 87DA engines were initially stockpiled for use, and then drip feed using OHC inventory for the next 5 years. The Falcon Utility was a huge success, with Ford having introduced it in 1979 from a reheated 1972 design. The x-flow engines were used because they expected to axe the old ute, but the rampant inflation made Jap utes very expensive, and Ford just kept churning them out at about 10,000 units a year. The big change was the so-called dog turd OHC crank seal. This made both the 3.3/4.1 x-flow and 3.2/3.9 OHC cranks the same.


Hope that helps.

x

 

[Fingers]

Sorry Addo, but I think you are wrong on the XE engine bit, It should be an XF. If Ben can post his engine number we can work out the month and year of build. The number should be stamped just below the head and just behind the water pump. BTW, XF's started in late 84.
DOH.....Dean was typing his far more elaborate reply while I was typing mine..... so yeah, what XECUTE/XTAXI said.

 

[addo]

Hey Richard:

JG31FP
6222 OC

I decoded it from the MoFoCo.com.au decoder list.

 

[Greywolf]

Thanks guys!
Addo, the fomomco.com.au site is pretty useful...got any more gems like that? Google US seems to miss them in favor of American Ford sites.
So it would seem my engine is one of the last XE units...I'll need to run hi-test fuel.
Can I retrofit a knock sensor to the block? Is the mounting point there? I will be using an old Haltech F3 and an Electromotive HPV-1 to run fuel and spark; hopefully I can make everything work together happily...
As for needing a copy editor, I'm on the ship for 6 weeks, send me what you've got, I can send it back a little neater and maybe we can get a good XFlow sticky up?
Ben

 

[addo]

Sorry, no hidden details really. You know of American Auto Parts (they are trustworthy; I use them as needed)? Keep a few measurements off the 2Vs close to my chest (because I wasted hours getting them), but never really got into crossflows. Australia isn't much on the internet yet, and you can get the wrong impression. The knowledge is here, but the "server" is often human. If I get stuck, I call Richard.

Google senses what your home country is and possibly weights the search results a little. OD of the cam bearings was a lucky dip on the earlier precrossflows - there are about five different sets!

I really urge the ACL hypers with file-fit ring set. And ACL gaskets. I think you need TE/TF Cortina headers to get the closest fit. Look for Castle, or Perrys/Pacemaker (I prefer these two brands).

Speaking from experience, you will be best getting all this in one hit, boxed up and posted over. Especially if your purchase order will incrude (sorry, oil joke :roll: ) a cam, bellhousing, fork etc.

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey fellas,

I'll have a look at work on monday on some stripped down blocks, to check out the knock sensor mount on the 84DA style blocks. I've been working at http://www.engineexchange.com.au/, doing delivery driving and workshop hand jobs.. I know we've got about four 4.1 engines laid up in disassembly, theres bound to be an 84DA and an 87DA in amongst the mix. Theres also a selection of EA, EBII, ED, EF and EL motors around the shop if anyone wants particulars..

 

[wagon]

Hello! Just a quick point to note, a knock sensor could be fitted to any of the crossflow heads : it screws into a kinda-sorta 'special' head bolt at the front of the motor - where the earth strap goes.. - my old antique is an 83da block / head with ULP XF EECIV efi.... I KNOW the knock sensor works because the car drops power big time if I put a load of Australian 'cat piss' 91 octane unleaded fuel in it instead of 95 or 98 octane stuff.

 

[Anonymous]

So how can we tell from the engine number if it is a 3.3 or a 4.1

 

[addo]

You can't. Checking the carby or distributor is a common one. Even then, you need to know the codes. Welding wire down the plug hole again...

 

[Anonymous]

G'day

Had a look at a few blocks at work. an 80DA did not have a boss for the knock sensor, an 83DA had one already tapped, another did not have it tapped, and an 86DA definitely had one. Hope this observation helps

 

[SONNY]

a good way to check what motor you have is a 200 ci has a stroke of 79.51mm and a 250 99.31mm.pull out the plug and use a piece of wire to measure the stroke.

 

[Fingers]

My apologies Addo....

 

[Anonymous]

I just got another 250 its another iron Xflow but its a 78DA
There is a few extermal changes like the fuel pump boss is a different shape
and the externat finish of the block is a lot smoother than the 76DA

 

[xctasy]

Gassed, you are so right!

The 78DA is what I have, and it wasn't 80DA. That's the Alloy Head block, which is Black and has a natural Silver head

I got a few things wrong there.

First, all iron headed XD's got a Blue block, and Black head with 35 mm intake ports, re worked to give an extra 2 kW. The XD engine was heaps more ecconomical than the XC.

The XC had a Blue block, and Blue head with 40 mm intake ports.

 

[Anonymous]

xtaxi,

on the economy in XC vs. XD, I was under the impression the XD won because of its lighter body.. Are there internal differences that would be more accountable towards a better fuel consumption rate in the XD iron head motor?

 

[xctasy]

Acroding to Wheels Feb and then March 1979, there was a loss of 255 to 331 pounds (116 to 150kilos) with the XD verses the XC. An Alloy head XD was almost 382 pounds lighter...173 kilos!

The weight saving of up to two big Aussies makes little more than 0.5 mpg improvement. Wheels found the 4.1 XC did 18.9 imperial mpg average, while the similar optioned 4.1 XD did 21.7 imperial mpg.

Considering that the XC was supposed to be a 10% worse off for drag (a claim disputed by a Ford funded technical academy in 1985), the difference is mostly related to the engine tune for sure. The XC was slightly higher geared becasue of stock 195SR14 tyres rather than the ER 70 H14's. Both late XC and early XD's ran the 2.92:1 diff, and the port diameters were 5mm different. The XD ran higher compression, up from 9.15 to 9.35:1, and the power and torque was 94 vs 92, and 292 vs 288 Nm.

The early car followed Cleveland head practice with gi-normus ports which lost torque and didn't help power much. The ports on the Alloy head were even smaller at 33 mm.

 

[addo]

Having experienced flat-to-the-boards power in an XC (distinctly underwhelming) I reckon the timing set has a lot to answer for. It was possibly too retarded to begin with, and stretch made it even worse.