2V Valve springs

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I was wondering what valve springs I could replace my existing stock OZ springs with that can be "bolted" on without removing the head...and speaking of that, how the hell do you get the springs compressed to remove the retainers with the head on? :? I know it can be done...right? I've been told that the real trick is to not lose the valve down into the cylinder! :shock: Some tricks/suggestions for that?

What springs would you suggest? I don't want to have to pull the head to mill the spring steps/seats but I do need stronger/stiffer springs than these originals. Maybe new stock rated ones will suffice, but I think these older ones are just worn out.

Thanks to the DownUnders!
 
Sorry, that I had that in my sig:

CSC-264-10-DHS
264/274
214/224 @.050
.450/.450 @1.5
.480/.480 @1.6
.495/.495 @1.65
110*
1600-5400 RPM
 
It's close to the max specs, but you might consider the Crow single springs. I'd try that first. Dual springs are often a waste of HP with a milder cam.
 
Soory, I don't understand what you mean by "it's close to the max specs". Are you meaning the Crow springs are close to the max I should use? Are Crow springs available here in the US? Are there specs/model #'s I should be looking at?

Thanks Addo!
 
Crow's singles are rated up to 500 thou lift. With the Y/T rockers, you're nearly at that lift figure. I believe they do have an agent in the US, but otherwise you could order off "American Auto Parts" (yes, really) in Sydney!
 
ISKY doesn't make it easy to find part numbers on their site. Do you have specs on them? Are they "fit right on's" that need nothing special? Do you have a stock valve train?

Anyone with some suggestions for removing the springs with the head on?

Addo, you said that my YT roller rockers are rated nearly at 500 thousandths lift. I don't see that in the specs anywhere. How do I know that?
 
A quick personal note. I haven't got the part numbers or specs you need, but do have a couple of lines of inquirey.

1.The stock replacement Cleveland 351 2v valve springs for the first 1970-1971 265 hp Torino/Mustangs will work okay.

2. The old Crower single spring, once listed as #68315, will work to 6500 rpm, if it was possiable. It has lots of nose tension, and is as big as you'd ever need. You don't need twin or triple valve springs. At 5400 rpm, you won't get any spring surge.


The rule with all cams is normally to use the minimum spring tension you can get away with out valve float and lifter pump up. The X-flow has a 20% lighter valve train than a 351C, but with with heavier, longer pushrods than the Cleveland. It is heaps heavier than the non cross flow I6's. The valve springs used on the 351C Fords are therfore okay for most mild to wild X-flows.

A very important note on long term durability. Since all canted valve Fords suffer from extreme valve loads because of the heavy valve gear, I'd look for valve springs which will still hold considerable tension in 10 years time. Engineer Lee Morse from Ford said that the canted valve Boss/Cleveland/Lima/Modified suffer valve death if they are not oiled well. On a high lift cam, I'd say dial up heavier valve springs as they will be worked harder than on similar sized Chevys or 2V head engines. There is about 8% more lever arm, and up to 5% more valve weight to lift than any regular log 144-250, or 2V or Argie I6 engine. X-flow and Clevleand valves are longer and bigger in most dimensions than even the last big log 200/250 engines.


Use the Isky #347 -ST Chev big block retainer for the multiple grove valves Ford uses. Multi grove valves are not the strongest. The hardened Ford Cleveland/Big Block 429/460 10 degree keepers (collets over here) can be shaved back so the spining mechanisim doesn't work. Stock keepers on Fords are designed to butt up together, and allow rotation of the valve to eliminate hot spots. Under really high revs (above 6500 rpm), you may want to go single grove. Below that, I'd modify the mutli grooves to stop the valve rattling. If you focus on things which break, and fixing them, then you can go easy on the valve springs. Extra heavy valve springs will cost performance and create cam and chain problems. Like all Detriot Fords, Aussie ohv Falcons suffer from a small link pin cam chain, and extra tension on the cam is to be avoided. Ford added more links to cope with the heavier valve gear in 1971. The cross flow got and upgrade too.

Don't go for springs too heavy!
 
Man, you guys rock. Pure vaults of knowledge. Now, for a layman like myself...

I should buy:

The old Crower single spring, once listed as #68315: http://www.crower.com/cgi-bin/detail.cgi?prod_id=68315
They show as discontinued :cry:


Isky #347 -ST Chev big block retainer for the multiple grove valves Ford uses. Remember, I'm using stock OZ valves...these still the right retainers for the job? ISKY shows three part numbers:

347-ST @ ~$62
347-ST12 @ ~$72
347-ST8 @ ~$26

?? whats the difference? They don't say!

Isky also shows the following for the Falcon 6's:
http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php? ... gine_id=48

and these for the 351's:
http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php? ... ine_id=332
 
ST is posibly the multi grove suffix. 12 and 8 is for possibly different keeper angles. The 347 -ST is it. It will fit okay!

Don't tell anyone, but Ford were realists in the late 60's, and rather than out engineer GM, they bought the rights. No point in being blQQdy minded!

Just like Q'jet's on 428 FE engines, Bishops Kirby power steering boxes, air dams and spoilers on the Boss Mustangs, and a few keys guys from Pontiac and Chevrolet.

If ya can't beat 'em, buy them!

The log springs won't do due to length and binding issues, but the 3335/385 family will work. There is about a 60 thou difference in length between x-flow and 351C/M and 400 engines, so you'll have no problems if the installed height is kept to. When the valves are recut to suit the inserts, the manchinist has an option of bringing the valve up or down to suit the stock x-flow specs, even if you are using 351C springs.


I'll have to check out the springs. Brother addo is on key with the spring information. There is a nose tension method, which is based on stroboscopic tests done by the cam makers. Cam makers such as Crow are the best source of the correct information.

I've got a x-flow build-up list in the making. One guy here has been waiting a while for his. I tend to dig deep holes for myself, but you'll get some info soon!
 
You keep saying x-flow, but I aint got an x-flow...do i?? Just a plain ole 2502V. I'm not using stock LOG springs; they are stock springs for the OZ head.

OK, then 347 -ST retainers and the 351 springs:
http://www.iskycams.com/makesearch.php? ... ine_id=332

Any idea what the difference is between the two sets of springs on that page? Their site is terrible for product details!
 
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Cleveland 4v 351 Vee-Eight valve springs have an installed seat pressure 110 pounds too, just like the XA ones. The XA ones sound oversprung to me, but hey, that's Crows advice!

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xtaxi
2502V have the inlet on the same side as the outlet (exhaust), the crossflows have the out and in on opposite sides to each other. Im sure you already know this.
Cheers mate
 
I'm learning. :lol: :wink:

Next, someone will ask for a set of Pacemakers, and I'll tell them how to do open heart surgery and a stent application.

Later dudes :P
 
Well, the seat pressure point is interesting. I'd been more interested in the max lift and RPM issues. My turn for :oops: ? It does wuss out according to the pressure at half-inch lift, though.

A cam grinder will NEVER underspec a spring. They'd have some factor they're comfy with, of over-doing it.
 
for your removal of valve spring question. When i was rebuilding my motor over winter break i was down at my uncles shop and before i had the head work done one of the mechanics helped me take the old valves and springs out he used a tool that grabbed the spring on opposite sides and turned somthing at the top which compressed the spring wich came right off.
 
1. Use only a rented or new spring compressor. You are dead too long without one.

The only safe way to remove valve springs without imbeding a flying 50 pound per inch rate spring into your temple.


2. 63, the old posts by Jimbo65 are a key. His interaction was with almost everyone on this forum, and he worked over the details.

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42189&highlight=#42189

Mike and addo have noted the following

The US have 5/16 stems. The Oz valves are 11/32 you will need to replace you guides

The retainers must also be replaced. The one piece 260 v-8 retainers are hard to find. I used one piece retainers from a ford 4.0 v-6

Jimbo 65:

Retainers # RE $65.40
Performance Double Springs #903-12 $62.96
Keepers #601-16 $8.80

These valve springs may be found by checking with AzCoupe. The issue is that if you cahnge the reatiner, you may change the seated length.

Get advice, and re-read http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=143946&highlight=#143946

I'm certain you have enough info here. Check Ricksmol's posts, and just get a feel for what is involved.

Everyone here will help you if anything is unclear. I 've just gotta make sure were on the same page. Wasn't before!

Regards,

Deano
 
Thanks again all...just so everyone, including myself, is clear:

I have a 2502V OZ head with stock OZ valves, springs, guides, etc
I'm only replacing springs and retainers, not valves, valve guides, etc

I saw that spring compressor tool...figured there was something like that. I'll rent/borrow/buy one of those.
 
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