300ci 4.9l engine swap from a 95 to a 63 Econoline. Some injection related questions.....

This applies to 300ci engines only

Walken100

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EDIT: Be forewarned, don't do this with a 95/96 donor. Earlier vehicles are much easier......

I'm early in on an engine and trans swap for my 63 HD Econoline. IE I'm still pulling the donor engine (4.9l) and trans (C6) out of a 95 Econoline. The plan is to use and modify the Ford injection using a Quarter horse for access. I have a reasonable understanding of the basic components I need. I'll also being doing a smog delete. Last note, I am planning on a rebuild and significant performance upgrades to the 4.9.

So my questions
  • For anyone that has done something similar is there anything you wish you had grabbed, related to the injection, from the donor but didn't? I'll have the 95 van for a while but don't want to destroy something I think is not needed/wanted.
  • Is there any need to keep any of the vacuum control intact?
  • Is it possible to reuse the throttle cable and kick down?
  • It looks like the injection harness is comingled with the larger harness (I may be wrong as I can't see everything yet). If that is the case how hard is it to separate the two?
  • Anything else I can or should reuse off of the 95?
  • I assume I'll need a new throttle body eventually. At what point will I need something aftermarket? Or said another way how far with the throttle body off of a 5.8 get me?

Thanks in advance

Bart
 
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In 1965 - 1967 Econoline Supervan Ford made the 240 engine available as an option. To install a 240/300 six, easily. The best thing would be to find a complete parts truck with the whole drivetrain in it. The whole drivetrain is different in the Supervan. The Supervan had a heavier drivetrain to handle the extra HP and torque of the 240.

The 240 Supervan version came with the following upgrades. (I’ll list them as best as I can. I’m going by memory on a 3 speed standard version.)

• Heavy duty bolt on cross member to hold the 240 in place.

• 6 bolt cast iron flywheel housing. They were similar in looks and design as used on the 289, 302, 351 and 351 Cleveland V8’s.

• Flywheel were similar as the earlier small block V8’s. (Warning!!! Do not use a small block V8 flywheel. They are counter weighted. Use a flywheel for a 240/300 engine only. The 240/300 engines are internally balanced.)

• Heavy Duty 3.03 3 speed fully synchronized transmission.

• 9” rearend.

• 14” wheels

• 90 degree oil filter adapter. For easy oil changes.

• Heavy Duty clutch


As you already know, space will be very limited in the engine compartment.
The stock 240/300 and Edelbrock SP180 intake manifolds are the only ones that will fit in the stock engine compartment.

EFI:
Unfortunately, you are very limited in space in the engine compartment. A 4.9 EFI will not fit without lots of work. The seats are too close to the engine compartment.

The Holley Sniper 1100 might be your only option.

Carburetor will have a few more options.

EFI Exhaust manifolds:
I’m not sure if there will be enough room to use them.

Honestly, a 302 V8 would be an easier conversion than a 4.9 EFI. I put a 302 in my 1966. A 302 fit in the engine compartment with very little work.
A good upgrade would be a 347 stroker kit. A built up C4 automatic will be a good option.

With a 302 conversion, there is plenty of room above the engine in the engine compartment. With a 4.9EFI conversion, there is not enough room and major changes have to be changed to the engine cover and possibly seats.
 
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best thing would be to find a complete parts truck
Thank you for the input.

A couple of notes, mine is an HD. So I have the 9" rear end but I also have the 170. Fabricating mounts is no biggie. I will be doing some reinforcement as I go. The stock dog house will be replaced. There are a few things I want room for so it's gonna go. I'll make the stock EFI fit and hopefully work. EFI exhaust is in the plan.

I edited my original post to clarify some points.
 
The best thing would be to do a mock up first. Set the engine in place and see what has to be done. There is only so much room for seating.

I do know that I would not want to do a tuneup on a 4.9 EFI in an early Econoline. There will be no room to get to the plugs and distributor unless the new cover is easily removable.
 
I been there, I know the pain I went through with my 1966. The first thing that came to me was pain when a tuneup is needed. We’re not getting any younger and need to keep things as simple as possible.

That is why I recommended a 347 stroker if you want to keep the stock cover. Tuneups are much easier. Plugs, well, use iridium, spark plugs.

Just take your time and get as much laid out before starting.
 
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If you are looking for a significant power increase, I would recommend replacing the upper half of the intake manifold with a round plenum that has a throttle body at the end of the plenum.
This will reduce the height above the engine and make working on the engine much easier.
 
I would recommend replacing the upper half of the intake manifold
That's is part of my thinking just not initially. I'd like to get the van running relatively quickly so I can start learning how to tune the injection. That way if I screw something up it's not on a modified engine. Once everything is in place then I'll do the "real" build. This all may change once I find out the condition of the motor (its the seized engine from a previous post). All that said I'm enamored with long runner intakes.
 
One bump and to be sure I'm not missing anything relative to removing injection components specifically.
 
Some "do not lose" items from fuel injection, especially if keeping but reprogramming ECU....
1 The 60 pin connector for the ECU. The head of the stock harness. There are year, engine, and trans differences in the pinout.
2 The knock sensor.
3 The MAP sensor. It is a frequency based sensor, unlike the resistance based sensors the rest of the industry settled on.
4 The fuel rail. It is stainless tube assembly, with injector seats NOT perpendicular to the rail. Very hard to duplicate in AL extrusions.

These are the things I can remember off the top of my head that are unavailable, or scarce/salvage aftermarket.
 
It also runs at 50-60psi.
I have my doubts that you could ever build a 4.9 that could exceed the fuel capacity of that rail. Well, at least using the heads and manifolds.
 
You will want to upgrade the injectors.
There is a large selection for those.

The fuel pressure regulator is an odd one (due to the higher pressure). And in an inconvenient location.
But I don't think locations come in any other flavor in a van engine bay.
 
he fuel pressure regulator is an odd one
EDIT: I just looked up the location of the regulator. It'll be saved.

Should I pull the regulator as well? I was thinking aftermarket for the regulator and pump but a penny saved........ I doubt I'll be able to reuse the pump. Hell I haven't even id'd the regulator yet.
 
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Common sense, but retrieve the gas tank, fuel pump, fuel lines from pump to engine and all wiring harnesses from engine to ECU.
Regarding the gas tank, the EFI tank didn't fit my application so I cut out the pump hole area and welded it into another tank that fits my car.
 
I bet if you draw fuel from the bottom of your tank you wont need a prepump in the tank. Im assuming the 4.9 had one,

maybe the regulator could be moved, it mounts to the fuel rail bit maybe an adapter with high pressure fuel line could be fitted. Its in a stupid place.

removing that whole box makes sense and then make it fit after. Id leave 2 inches of room for some sound insulation. If I run mine with doghouse removed its pretty loud..

in my van I put seats from the rear of a delica, they have tracks about 2 feet long so I can slide my drivers seat right away from the engine. in my case the wheelchair lift blocked the passendger seat in so it doesnt;; move much but yoiurs wont have that.
and they are captains seats so if I ever sed it for camping they can be rotarted 180 .

I had to make the delica seats 2" taller original lowbacks look cool but only had one adjustment and they were super uncomfortable, that made it a lot nicer. I saved threm to pass along since they were nice and OEM.

if you install it witth the ECU and FI then you may decisde how mich to keep , most of the pollution control can be removed but if you wantot do a code check its gointg to always barf up related codes.

Im not sure if it may go into something like a "get home mode" or if itll run right , Mechrick is the one to ask on that since he knows the ECU functionality quite well, the cat does nothing , the o2 sensor is before the cat so elliminating that wont matter much I dont think, unless you have to pass some emissions test. dont forget the old one is worth a few bucks. thats why the junkies keep stealing them.

I think with the 65 it would be nice visually if the top is original looking.
even if the box is bigger. Its part of it's nostalgia.

how about making the rest of the box so it bolts together so it can be completely removed easily?

if you are transplanting the engine maybe you could keep some of the crosmember or motor mounts so you can use what is possible and yea youll be fabbing things to fit for sure but it sounds like you are ok doing that.

Id pull the ECU and every wire you can , label any you cut..

I took apart a car a while back and it did taake time to carefully pull almost every wire but now I have it in a box and its habndy as a reference like a 3 D wiring diagram I can put a meter on an ECU pin and find the other end, saving some confusion maybe?
the throttle cable isnt; complicated I just changed mine and wondered why I did but just didnt; want it to break on me, then I noted the transmission shift cable also has a rather aged looking plastic part where it connects to the throttle body.


Id get the advice of others about keeping or removing the EGR ssytem, its possible but the more you remove the more confused the ECU will be, in mine I chose to keep it all but its not having a heart transplant ;-)

to get at the injectors you have to remove the whole manifold and its a bit of a PITA in my van the hardest part is the bolts along the right side of the manifold, mine is tight in there, also mine has a sensor near the front of the manifold and its tight too..


you might ask the others , there are pipes in mine to cool near the fuel rail, that isn't absolutely necessary, the fuel rail has a temp sensor , I think that operates the blower for that. it just clips on the rail.

mine has a hook thats near the fuel rail if I had it stripped I;d think about removing that thing, its to hoist the engine with inthe factory,, Id say once installed its probably not necessary you could likely bolt a chain to other stuff or maybe you want it.. remving that thing and the air pipe might make a bit more room to work on stuff..

I think it is actually possible to remove the fuel regulator, but awkward.. mine worked ok bu tI dint want a torn diaphram problem. so your choice you can test it by checking fuel pressure if the vacuum line has gas in it, it is torn..

all thoise hoses on top of th emanifild , you might get by without some of them but make sure none leak or it'll suck air and muck up the idle.

on top of the manifold there is the idle air valve, youll need room for that I guess.

if the other van is being wrecked Id keep every conector, simple to clip them off and you can always splice later.

if you can keep the harness asa a whole and then decide to elliminate things it may be easier to work ont he harness mods out of the truck then make it fit after, then you could remove any unused wires to simpligfy things.
seat belt warning sytem and maybe other things, the drivers seat has a switch.. some stuff might not be needed.

Id use a ziploc and write on it with a marker , one for every connector.. wht is clear now may =not be in 6 months.

keep stuff like rubber grommets you can always bop a hole and use those over.

I bought a new pump then decided its kind of cheap and I bought the bosche one Ive been meaning to swap it out. put in a new fuel filter when mucking with the pump.

ford uses a tool to release the fuel leines I bou=ght a 5 dollar plastic cheapo, it worked fine. you canwrap a bit of sheet metal around and jam that in there instead, to get them to release, if you dont own that. near the fuel piumpo there are other weird ford connectors Id get some new ones. they have these stupid plastic clips that will be old by now and maybe brittle.

at the rear right near the rear of the block there is a fitting, I forget, I thinkit s a temp sensor, Id remove that when you flush the engine block mine seemed to have a ton of riusty crap caught in there and it ran brown water for a bit.. easy to do.
what will run the speedo?
 
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keep stuff like rubber grommets
This may seem silly but that's my favorite suggestion so far. I'm forever hunting down grommets during a build. Thank you

Id use a ziploc and write on it with a marker
I'm using tape and a marker. Good news, so far I've been able to identify all the sensors by sight.

removing that whole box makes sense
There is a ton of space behind the drivers seat that I want to try to utilize for electronics, airbox and god knows what. I just need to see the engine in place before I make a plan.

what will run the speedo?
In the words of Scarlett O'hara "I can't think about that right now. If I do, I'll go crazy. I'll think about that tomorrow".....
 
I bet if you draw fuel from the bottom of your tank you wont need a prepump in the tank. Im assuming the 4.9 had one,
The 1987 through 1989 4.9 EFI has two pumps. The primary pump is in the tank. I read somewhere that the fuel pressure is up to about 7 psi. The secondary pump is on the driver side, on the frame, under the cab. The secondary pump is good up to 60 psi. But it’s just adequate enough for the stock 4.9 EFI setup.

Please note:
For reference, the stock primary pump seems to be a great pump for my stock internal 1989 EFI conversion to a Holley 390 carburetor/Offenhauser C setup. It handles the required fuel pressure and volume well. But it will need a regulator with a bypass line going back to the tank.

1990 through 1996 4.9 EFI has only one pump. It is located in the tank. It is rated for the stock 1990 through 1996 4.9 EFI setup. I never messed with this setup, so I don’t know what it’s capable of putting out if it’s going to be pushed on an engine that will put out more HP over a stock engine.
 
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