'68 Mustang

[pachecoj]

Lupin,

I think you are letting the cart get before the horse. As others have stated the body needs some serious repairs before you even think about an engine/drivetrain.

You stated that you think somebody had it off the frame and started the restoration; as others have alluded to this is impossible since the mustang is a unibody car and does not have a separate frame. The "U-shaped beams" you mentioned are indeed the frame rails; between those and the roof this is what holds the car together. Right now it is mostly held together by the roof and rocker panels. From one of your pictures it looks like somebody might've replaced at least one of the rocker panels.

What I would do if I were you is before you do anything decide how much the car is worth to you and how motivated you are to fix it. This will give you an idea of your price limit and how much time you are willing to spend to get it drivable.

Then I would start pulling things. Pull the engine, transmission, rearend, suspension, etc. Get it up on jackstands and look over every nook and cranny. Figure out what needs to be replaced and what doesn't. Then spend a good several hours online looking up prices for things to replace. This will give you a rough idea of how much the car needs. If this goes over your previous spending limit, then look for a car in driveable condition.

From looking at it I can tell you it will need at least the following metal repairs just to be driveable:
- part or most of the front and rear framerails
- entire floor
- entire trunk floor
- tail panel
- inner fender walls

In addition to these you will probably want to do the following metal repairs:
- cowl
- quarter panels
- fenders
- inner fender walls
- wheel wells (inner and/or outer)

This can be done, and I've done it, but it is a considerable investment and requires a lot of dedication on your part. It all comes down to what you're looking for, and if you're just looking for a 6-cyl driver you might want to buy something turnkey and save a lot of money/time. If you do this, though, try to make sure the mustang goes to somebody that is willing to fix it rather than junk it.

Jason

 

[Lupin398]

Well actually probably tomorrow I'm going to a local welder with the list of materials for the rotisserie to see how much it would cost, and how much he might charge to put it all together, if it's not much for it to be done professionally, I might go ahead and just pay him to do it.(I purchased my F-150 from him)

That's part of what I was looking at, New/used engine, possibly new trans, possibly new radiator, I have quite a few of the interior parts, I'm not entirely sure what they are called, but the parts that hold the hood and trunk down. I have the grille but it doesn't look like it has a latch-piece on it. I have both bucket seats and the rear bench, if I cleaned them up a little I could still use them until I could get them reupholstered. Right now I'm just pondering what the approximate price would run, but I figured the rotisserie would be pretty good to get built anyway, in the end, if I don't use it then I know quite a few car people who would probably buy it off of me and I could at least get my money back for making it/getting it made.

Right now my plans are Rotisserie -> Check the undercarriage -> Fix undercarriage, though I know it sounds like I'm scatterbrained and trying to mash everything together I do have a method to my madness. After the undercarriage then I suppose it's time to work on the body, but the toughest thing is I don't have a garage and this would be purely outside work.

 

[GrantD]

I definitely appreciate your passion to keep an old mustang on the streets. I agree with the others that it's going to be a long road ahead. I just want to bring a couple of other things up that haven't been mentioned yet.

You mentioned that you're concerned about fuel economy, which leads me to assume that you're concerned about cost. To get that car on the roadworthy is going to mean a lot of expensive patch and reproduction panels $$$.

Your mileage goals are a bit on the optimistic side also. I was able to see a bit under 25 on the highway with a 200 in a foxbody with a 4psd manual SROD trans. You'll get less with a c4. I know this is a ford six forum and I enjoy them quite a bit also, but I think it'd be easier for you to replace that 351 with a 302. I think mileagewise if you keep the build pretty stock you should be able to see low to mid 20's and I think you can keep your motor mounts, exhaust, heads (if they're any good still) and get a bit more power out of the whole package.

I don't know the older mustangs as well but Do you guys know if there is a kmember change to go between the 6's and 8's like there is on the foxbodies?

 

[Lupin398]

Heh..Well I wanted to replace most of the undercarriage frame rails and body panels with some suitable pieces of steel and sheet metal.

Though I'm kind of just praying right now that it's not too bad to cause all that much money. I'm not really going for perfect, just 'safe'.

I'm not really a fan of V8 engines, I was going for a daily driver ideally and the 351 is a bit of a gasoholic I don't really like the 302 either. Most of the gearheads I know want to stuff the biggest chunk of steel they can in the engine bay. My brother actually wanted to put a 400m/460 in this mustang I believe.

And yeah, I know the mileage is probably a bit far-fetched but I was getting 20+ mpg in my F-150 with a 300-6 and E4OD highway at one point.(all highway driving at that point in time) so I'm hoping I can do better with a mustang. (I like vacuum gauges in things I drive and I was using some hypermiling techniques. Not all, but like slowing down before the stop sign/red light. Not gunning the gas when starting off, not speeding, maybe one or two more but just little ones like these) that was over about at least a two month period with those consistent results.

Though sadly I know where a mustang is sitting that is painted up body with wheels on it and the 5-lug conversion that I could probably get for $200 or so, and someone wanted to buy my mustang. Sadly I was thinking of trying to find the buyer again and see if they would still purchase it. It does have some sentimental value but at the same time, it's much nicer to have most of the work already done.

 

[mustang6]

I had a 68 California Special once that looked good and had all the pieces but due to a life in the Midwest had a rusty unibody like this car. It may be harder to find these days, but I looked around for a while and found a 68 Cougar that was being parted out because of a front end hit. I looked at it and found it had almost no rust underneath, so I bought the hulk for $50 after he had sold/removed all the parts off it that he wanted. I then proceeded to cut all the metal pieces I needed off the Cougar and weld them to the Mustang. It was very time consuming, I had to first cut the rusted parts off the Mustang, measure and cut the same parts off the Cougar, then weld those parts to the Mustang, then primer/seal/undercoat all the welds. If I had paid for all the labor I estimate it would have cost me at least $2,000.

My point in telling you all this is because my cash outlay was essentially only $50. I got dozens of pieces off the Cougar but spent about 8 months doing all this work. So if you are dedicated, can weld, and have a lot of time on your hands- look around for a stripped down donor car you can cannibalize.

 

[Lupin398]

Ok, in checking for prices I ran into a problem, I can't seem to find a 200ci engine, I can get one at Advance Auto for about $1,500 but that's kinda a bit much for an engine. If I can get a used engine I can get it rebuilt pretty cheap doing the work myself(Sister-in-law rebuilds engines at her family-owned business)

And in other news, I'll be checking in on a already sanded and painted '66 mustang but no motor/trans/driveshaft

 

[GrantD]

Lupin,

Where about are you located? I'm sure everyone on here keeps an eye out for them anyway, we'd help you look. I see them come up on craigslist fairly often, most people seem to think that the only thing you can do with one is remove it. 1500 is pretty steep. I got mine for $650 and it came with a rust free low miles foxbody mustang. If you know of any car clubs, particularly mustang clubs, it might be worth giving them a call and see if they've got any laying around, or know where one might be. For 100,000ish mi rebuildable core I wouldn't go over a couple hundred bucks.

I hope you're having some luck with those other cars, if you can get a decent price on one you'll be thanking yourself pretty quick.

 

[Lupin398]

The only thing I can think of would be a man down my development restored a mustang but I have no idea which exact year/engine/trans or how far he went with the restoration.

I live in Denton, Maryland, though if the motor came with car attached I could drive a little ways to pick it up, just mostly anything cheap, and yeah, I check craigslist every day or two to see if anything new popped up, but so far it mostly seems like unrelated stuff.

 

[CoupeBoy]

When you get around to fixing your rust you should get yourself a frame layout and measurement chart like the one available from Mid Country Classic Mustang

-ron

 

[Lupin398]

Ok, Worst areas are under the driver's seat and a little bit on that I-beam looking thing under the fender near the radiator support. And I just got a free patch panel for underneath the driver's seat. Apparently at some point in time it was sprayed with some REALLY freakin' heavy-duty under-coating.
Essentially it's Rhino Liner without the rubbery-texture and about very dry mud color. The whole passenger-side from the driveshaft over is nearly rust free and covered with this undercoating. The only exception are those frame rails on the passenger side, and they're still pretty solid, so they may very well be salvageable, just need a new one for the driver's side.

That all said, and seeing NitrousNick's post in the big block six section, I might just end up getting a flywheel and oil pan from a 240 and dropping a 300-6 in since it has a 351w in it now, depending on if I can find a small-block six. There are some 170's I could get though I was told they would be a pretty steep price in comparison to anything else by a rebuilder. And the fact for a 4.9 I only have to pay the rebuild cost whatever it turns out to be. There apparently was concrete powder poured into the gas tank of the truck it came out of.

As a side-note? I might not have to do as much as I originally thought, I didn't find out until today when I jacked the car up high that the stuff was actually undercoating and not old dried mud. And it definitely seems like someone had it jacked up with the whole undercarriage completely unbolted and had started on restoring it.

Now it's time to start sanding on what I can get to, hopefully after a good few days of work now that it's warm the car will at least look somewhat better.

Though I do have one question that irks me, that gas tank is right there on the rear-end. What can be done to protect it from going boom if someone rear-ends me?
I've heard of the firewalls that go between the back seat and trunk, but is there anything I can actually do other than that to ensure a fire doesn't start?

 

[MPGmustang]

for the gas tank look into this
http://www.autoworksracing.com/gas_tank_armor.htm
i'm tempted to... i did have another link that i don't know whaere it went, it was considerably cheaper and here in AZ (my backyard)

personally and honestly i know that you want to restore this mustang, but have you written down how much it's going to cost you yet?

if not open an excel spread sheet and start punching prices of things you want to do, for a rebuilt 200ci it'll be roughly 1000, for a used running 200ci probably 200-500 depending on what it's got. then the motor mounts, radiator as the one you have is the wrong pattern, hoses, the tranny needs to be rebuilt, i would have the U' joints looked at (not a pretty sight when they break or are loose or liked by the check book) your fenders i would replace both with the same company at the same time so they match, over the years things change without knowing so make it symetrical and get both new one's all in all you well over (even if done cheaply) 4500 in just parts and things that you need done to make this car accetable for daily driver. and don't forget the labor that you're putting into it, just think if you had a car you would enjoy it now and all that time would be spent on modifying your car... just a thought..

Good luck and don't forget to post pictures.
Richard

 

[mustang6]

Heavy undercoating= good (if applied before rust started).

Heavy undercoating= bad (if hiding rust underneath).

I hope your heavy undercoating turns out to be a good thing, 4 times out of 5 I have found it to be a bad thing.

 

[CobraSix]

If only they had the fastback shells for the 65-66's.

Oh the fun I could have.

 

[Lupin398]

I would say the undercoating was applied with everything stripped down, since it only seems to be on the non-removable pieces. Though it seems the driver side it wasn't applied properly and that's why that under-piece rotted out.

I only need a few major pieces, front and back bumpers, tail light panel, and a windshield and then I pretty much should have a whole Mustang :roll:

Most likely all the body parts I'm going to clean up and re-use, with the hood being a possible exception. The fenders are actually pretty good, so I'm not really worried about them, most likely I'll end up towing it over to my brother's to use his wrecker to jack it up to sandblast and repair the driver's side and what else needs to be touched up.

The body isn't really that bad, a lot of what you see on the outside is just green s*** from it sitting under a tree, the inside is a lot of dirt and debris from sitting under that same tree, so it needs to be vacuumed/pressure washed.