70 Head on a 65 I6 200 motor

[Tom991]

I currently have 70 head on my 65 motor which explains why my power is low. I plan on having the head milled .075 to raise the compression. Since the fuel log is larger than that of a 65 head, I was thinking about either putting a Weber progressive 2V carb or an Autolite 2100 1.14 that I happen to already have. If I use the 2100 I would probably have to put smaller jets I'd imagine. I am also thinking of putting headers and connecting them to a 2" single exhaust. I think I can use a muffler and tail pipe for a 67 but will probably have to have a pipe made from the header back to the muffler. I'm not looking to gain V8 like power or sound. I just want the car to have some more pickup when merging into traffic on the highway. The carb is the last piece of the puzzle I'm going to attack. Is there an adapter plate that would allow me to use the air cleaner housing on either the Webber or the 2100? Can anyone think of any other low cost upgrades I can perform to achieve my goal. The car is my wife's 65 Mustang I6 200 convertible with a C4 tranny. I have the C4 from my Coupe which is a V8 transmission. Can I use that in my wife's car? If so would I get any benefit from doing so.

 

[rbohm]

I currently have 70 head on my 65 motor which explains why my power is low. I plan on having the head milled .075 to raise the compression. Since the fuel log is larger than that of a 65 head, I was thinking about either putting a Weber progressive 2V carb or an Autolite 2100 1.14 that I happen to already have. If I use the 2100 I would probably have to put smaller jets I'd imagine.

if you use the 2100, then start with the jets already in the carb. if you need to change them, its not a hard job to do.

I am also thinking of putting headers and connecting them to a 2" single exhaust. I think I can use a muffler and tail pipe for a 67 but will probably have to have a pipe made from the header back to the muffler. I'm not looking to gain V8 like power or sound. I just want the car to have some more pickup when merging into traffic on the highway.

if you are going to use a header and single exhaust, then bump the exhaust size to 2 1/4". also with the 65, the crossflow muffler from a 67 is a bit wide, remember ford changed these cars in 67 to allow for a big block by making them wider.

The carb is the last piece of the puzzle I'm going to attack. Is there an adapter plate that would allow me to use the air cleaner housing on either the Webber or the 2100?

i know mike was working on an adapter plate, i dont know if one as ever created. personally i would get the air cleaner for which ever card you choose. if you use a bolt on adapter, i suggest a drop over style air cleaner that lowers the overall profile.

Can anyone think of any other low cost upgrades I can perform to achieve my goal. The car is my wife's 65 Mustang I6 200 convertible with a C4 tranny. I have the C4 from my Coupe which is a V8 transmission. Can I use that in my wife's car? If so would I get any benefit from doing so.

the V8 C4 can be used, if you swap the bell housing, but you dont really get anything in return, unless you are building a lot of power from the six.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Tom:

And welcome to the forum. As long as you have the head off for milling I'd suggest that you freshen the valves with at least a three angle valve seat, and add a back cut of 30 degrees on the intake valves. IIWIYS I'd also freshen the valve guide seals.

What head gasket are you planning to use?

It sounds like a nice project. You'll love the change from increasing the compression.

Again, welcome. Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David

 

[bmbm40]

Try an upgrade for th ignition like a Pertronix.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy All:

Hey bmbm, good catch. Tom, what distributor are you using now? If you don't have a '68 and later distributor you will have a mismatch with your carb upgrade choices. The '66 distributor is a Load-O-Matic (LOM) which used a Spark Control Valve (SCV) to send a load sensitive vacuum signal to the LOM distributor for ignition advance. your two choice carbs send a ported vacuum signal which are compatible with the '68 point type distributor and with the later DuraSpark and DuraSpark II pointless distributor. bmbm's suggestion to upgrade to a Petronix Ignitor is a good one if you plan to stay with your '66 LOM. My recommend is to go to a DuraSpark II when you upgrade to a two barrel carb.

Adios, David

 

[Tom991]

Try an upgrade for th ignition like a Pertronix.

Thanks. I put in a Pertronix II a couple of years ago. I'm using the stock coil so I didn't have to bypass the pink resistor wire.

 

[Tom991]

Howdy All:

Hey bmbm, good catch. Tom, what distributor are you using now? If you don't have a '68 and later distributor you will have a mismatch with your carb upgrade choices. The '66 distributor is a Load-O-Matic (LOM) which used a Spark Control Valve (SCV) to send a load sensitive vacuum signal to the LOM distributor for ignition advance. your two choice carbs send a ported vacuum signal which are compatible with the '68 point type distributor and with the later DuraSpark and DuraSpark II pointless distributor. bmbm's suggestion to upgrade to a Petronix Ignitor is a good one if you plan to stay with your '66 LOM. My recommend is to go to a DuraSpark II when you upgrade to a two barrel carb.

Adios, David

Thanks David, that's something to think about. I already upgraded my points for a Pertronix II. Are you saying that having a Pertronix in my LOM I don't need to look for a later distributor? Or, I could always get a 68 or better distributor and swap the Pertronix set I have now. I believe it was for any Ford I6 200.

 

[rbohm]

Howdy All:

Hey bmbm, good catch. Tom, what distributor are you using now? If you don't have a '68 and later distributor you will have a mismatch with your carb upgrade choices. The '66 distributor is a Load-O-Matic (LOM) which used a Spark Control Valve (SCV) to send a load sensitive vacuum signal to the LOM distributor for ignition advance. your two choice carbs send a ported vacuum signal which are compatible with the '68 point type distributor and with the later DuraSpark and DuraSpark II pointless distributor. bmbm's suggestion to upgrade to a Petronix Ignitor is a good one if you plan to stay with your '66 LOM. My recommend is to go to a DuraSpark II when you upgrade to a two barrel carb.

Adios, David

Thanks David, that's something to think about. I already upgraded my points for a Pertronix II. Are you saying that having a Pertronix in my LOM I don't need to look for a later distributor? Or, I could always get a 68 or better distributor and swap the Pertronix set I have now. I believe it was for any Ford I6 200.

since you want to upgrade the carb, you need to upgrade the distributor to a dual advance unit and dump the LOM distributor

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

While you can upgrade to a '68, point type distributor to match your carb choices, and use you Ignitor, your best choice would be to opt for a '76 and later DuraSpark II ignition package.

Adios, David

 

[Econoline]

Pull your head off, find tdc with a stop and measure your deck height and measure your chamber volume. Then figure out your cam timing, gasket and mill. There's no replacement for real or actual measurements. There are commonalities or rules of thumb. But you don't know what you don't know.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back Tom and all:

Yes, I am saying that you should upgrade your LoM distributor. It is a vacuum only system mated to the SCV in the stock 1100 carb. FoMoCo left the LoM system behind in the '68 model year. Then beginning in '69 the transition to the DuraSpark system took place, followed closely in '70 to the DuraSpark II system. The only real difference between the early DuraSpark and DuraSpark II is the size of the distributor cap.

The '68 and later ignition system utilize both vacuum advance and centrifugal advance. Both an efficiency and performance improvement over the LoM distributor.

Yes, you could use your Petronix in the '68 & '69 Point type distributor. All of the '68 and later ignition system will be an upgrade over the LoM and be compatible with your planned carb upgrades.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Adios, david

 

[xctasy]

The stock Duraspark is a 1968 conventional distributor with an adaptor for a larger 1974 Duraspark I or even larger 1978 Duraspark II cap, and some pretty ordinary internals which have a very specific slot and spring correction for advance which is quite hard to dial in without a dial back timing light.

If it's got a Blue or Yellow strain relief Duraspark module, I'd use it. If the strain relief is some other color, maybe not. Brown strain relief is Duraspark III, Green is Durasaprk I, Red is Duraspark I technically.

The Red-grommet Duraspark module was a dwell-sensing design used in California models up through
1979. Very advanced. It used a special low-resistance Motorcraft DG-316 coil, and no ballast. All other Duraspark
boxes are designed to be run with a current-limiting resistor (i.e. ballast) in the voltage supply wire
to the coil only. The ignition module always needs to see full voltage, regardless of the type.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73651&p=565879#p565879

The DUI should be fine if vital servicing is done. The design is noted for its hot 50KV spark plus easy service and spark re curving. It does everything the first years Duraspark could do. Its just the HEI mounting and its DUI brand issues that stop it being a first choice.


We are learning more about DUI. I'd personally use whatever FoMoCo part you can find, but remember, the DUI problems are known about, and you can fix them cheaply. If you don't have a Duraspark or Duraspark II, and you can get the DUI for less and not have the substandard replacement parts the Duraspark after market can dribble out, its probably "six of one, half a dozen of the other". The Size of it, the mounting of the HEI, well, its all personal choice. If you don't have Duraspark on your car, it isn't a silly step to get a DUI, but it'll need a little work.

Duraspark II offers a lot of advantages. One of the best is the I6 Duraspark II blue strain relief versions of these distributors to a common Chrysler 5‐pin module. So does the first Duraspark (retro-respectively known as the Duraspark I systems from 1974 to 1975 and in CA till a few years later on some Windsor and 335 based engines).


The earlier system, if you can find them, are better even than the later Duraspark II systems. Ford re-engineered the Duraspark II to allow for safety concerns, and for it to work in cahoots with the emerging Duraspark III system.

The earlier i6 Ford and AMC systems have a smaller cap, and the Black or Green strain relief unit, some California market ones are Red. The AMC variant used in Jeeps and AMC sedans has its own system, then they hopped over to the Duraspark II.


The Duraspark I system (so called) is a rework of the stock Presolite based Autolite/ Motocraft ignition. Ford bought out Presolites Autolite in 1961. The early Duraspark uses a system that potentially can take a person out with an electric shock. Its primary differences are listed by George P, the Pantera International President Forum Administrator. The info is biased to Cleveland 351 engined cars, but it covers the differences.

cf http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ ... 7731000846

An OEM style Duraspark 1 module, having dynamic dwell, is one of the most sophisticated ignition modules you can buy. Use it as designed with the proper coil and no ballast resistance and you'll have have an ignition system that properly charges the coil over a wide range of rpm, and an ignition that can ignite mixtures others cannot.

So the MSD 8477 distributor and Duraspark 1 module (with the Duraspark 1 coil) would comprise one of the best distributor based ignitions you could assemble for your Pantera. I can provide Motorcraft & Standard Motor Products (SMP) part numbers for the module and coil if you're interested.