8.5" or 9" Flywheel : Pros and Cons

[SoCar72]

I'm new to the small sixes, just bought my Falcon back in September, and trying learn as much as I can as I begin to lay plans for future modifications and options. The Ford Falcon Performance Handbook has answered a lot of questions, and created a lot more.

Ignoring the relationship of the smaller and larger bellhousings to specific blocks, may there be any performance or operational differences between the 8.5" dished flywheel and the 9" flat flywheel?

In regards to the starter, can an 8.5" flywheel be used with a 9" bellhousing?

I've found listings for both 132 and 136 tooth ring gears for applications that should be the 9" flywheels. Is the 132 the 8.5" and 136 the 9", or some sort of typo? If there really is only a difference of 4 teeth, how much larger is the 9" over the 8.5"?

Summit lists a 10" Zoom Pressure Plate for the 170/200 for '67 and up E-series (and no others). Is that an application specific block and bellhousing for the Econolines? Sounds like an early SBF neutral balance flywheel modified for the L6.

My first big step is to swap the 2sp Cruise-o-Matic for a T5. I'd like to lay out all my options before starting.

 

[CoupeBoy]

have you been to

http://www.phlegm.us/tech/drivetrain/history.html

yet? The 9" stuff is easier to come by and the 3.03 (9") adapter is the same one the bent8 guys use, the 2.77 (8.5") bellhousing has only one good vendor to get the 'right' adapter from. I'd believe the 8.5" is 132 and I've seen many references to the 9" being a 136 I doubt that you could interchange/mix-match parts from the 2 setups to make one workable unit.

Without firsthand experience (parts in hand) the 10" clutch disc may be workable on a 9" flywheel. The 9" reference is the diameter of the clutch disc, not the actual size of the flywheel. I've seen references to a stock Bronco 9 3/4" I'd think that you would have to redrill your flywheel to the larger pattern, no big deal for a machine shop, but again you'd be pioneering this process as I've never heard of anyone else going that large on a small 6.

lots of luck,
-ron

 

[SoCar72]

I have seen the phlegm/history site. It is very informative. Though it didn't provide very specific technical details such as tooth count, diameter, thickness, or weight. Hence the posting question. I have mounted an 11" CD/PP on a SBF flywheel spec'd for a 10" before. I haven't thought about a 10" PP on a 9" flywheel. Though, outside of a racing application, not sure that the effort is worth it when the other 2 options are available.

Thank you for the input.

 

[FALCONAROUND]

Is there an aluminum flywheel application for ANY of our small block sixes?

 

[CoupeBoy]

I think you should go check out this thread in the Drivetrain section

Bell Housing Differences C60A vs C7ZA
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=56761

About halfway down I link to some additional information that hasn't quite made it's way to that history page, I host the History page btw, I didn't create it, but I am hoping to ad to it. There is quite a bit of information about larger clutches and visuals of bellhousings side by side.

There are no aluminum flywheels available for our small sixes (144/170/200) you can use a small block ford aluminum flywheel with a zero imbalance on the 250/240/300's. Your best bet may be to contact member cnc-dude and see how much he'd charge you to make one.

The 289 bellhousing will not work on a small block six they aren't anywhere close to being compatible.

-ron

 

[Junk-Falcon]

i was lucky n found a alu flywheel made by weber tooling co in ca in 1963 for the 8.5in ,, found it on ebay , the guy had 2 and i only got the 1 ,, its going in the van in a cpl wks along with the new 200 , so theres a cpl made
charlie

 

[SoCar72]

CoupeBoy - Awesome info, thanks! I'll look back through the Drivetrain section. I downloaded both JPG's. The Flywheel JPG looked like a screenshot of an XLS, you wouldn't happen to have the source XLS, would you? I'm intrigued by the database you're building.

For what it may be worth, I design, engineer, and build for the theatre industry. My strong suit is engineering and building structural and kinetic elements. As such, I'm rather savvy with AutoCAD and VectorWorks and tend to create tech drawings for anything funky I build (suspension components, accessory brackets, boring templates, etc.) I have 2 bells, a D5 and a C3 and will create drawings of each. I'd be willing to share this info for your database.

Is there a place around here where people share/contribute designs for things : X-members, adapters, etc (only a couple of weeks old with the whole forum thing, and posting for 3 days) The theatre community has a thing called Tech Briefs where people publish solutions to crazy challenges. Wondering if something like that exists.

I've read "bent8" a couple of times. What is this? Perhaps my greenhorn eyes are blind...

 

[CoupeBoy]

I do have the excel spreadsheet at home, I'll email it sometime over the next couple days. My day job isn't in programming but I have a BS in CS.. so I have a tendacy to collect data, lots of it. And I need a way to recover (find) things when it's important to me, so I started coding using php and mysql, I've been trying to create entries that I have references for, so if anybody ever wants to know where I found a bit of information I can direct them to the source (pet peeve is documents that cannot be supported). I don't get much time to work on it, so I normally just put things into excel spreadsheets then import them when I get time. Somewhere on this board is about 280 Ford manual transmission tags with information about what they were used in and what type they were (3spd/4spd/Ford/Dagenham/etc) other information that I need to import still (and that was created last February)

CAD renderings (and accurate measurements of the block to bellhousing bolt spacings) would be very excellent, I'd definatly host that.

We don't have any dedicated area for challenges but if you are bored I can give you a few..

bent8 = v8 (but obviously people who run them are a little bent, FWIW my '68 Coupe has a 289/C4)

-ron

 

[Funky Cricket]

i'm working from memory here, and at work, but i believe the e0 block (1980) uses the same bolt pattern as the SBF and (from memory mind you) if you use that block you can use a sbf t5 and clutch and zero balance flywheel and starter. I just don't recall if there was an issue the input shaft length and I believe you had to modify the clutch pedal and connection. Not sure if it helps with your current situation but if you were looking to rebuild, the blocks can be had cheaply.

 

[SoCar72]

Funky Cricket - Falcon Performance Handbook references the late 200 LM starter blocks as sharing 4 of the 6 bolts with the SBF blocks and bells. The top 2 are roughly 1" above the deck. The suggested solution is to bore the SBF bell to match the top 2 block holes as the bell lip passes over these. Then, as you've stated, use a neutral balance SBF flywheel and clutch package.

I've got a couple of bells, a D5 and a C3. The C3 will bolt to my '63 170. The D5 is the later bell pattern, I bought it before I picked up on the bolt pattern differences. Since the D5 utilizes the 9" clutch flat flywheel, I'm going to look into the possibility of adapting it to the early block, especially since it's transmission pattern looks a lot like the T5 I have. I haven't had the chance yet to compare it to my SBF T5 bell.

CoupeBoy - I'm an XLS nerd myself. I'm constantly creating XLS calculation worksheets for anything involving variables. I'll keep an eye out for the email, thanks. I'll post my findings on the bells and such. I'm sure there's a FAQ on posting images and files.

Bent8, got it. I'm an equally opportunity Blue Oval-er myself. Been playing with the 289-302-351w's, 2.3L 4cyl, and the 300 big six for a while.

Junk-Falcon - Awesome on the Aluminum Flywheel. Do you have any idea of it's original application? Does it literally share the same dimensions as the OEM iron/steel ones? Or, where they all out custom jobs?

 

[CoupeBoy]

I'm actually quite illiterate regarding xls or any other word processing app (think of any MS Office app). Where I come from I can't use it, but I sure know how to fix it when you get errors (with the application not your pivot tables). Give me an error code and I'll give you an answer. But I do enjoy programming and relational databases, when I get time. The problem has always been lack of 'free time' and 'push', (absence of goals, deadlines) and budget for more reference material.

I did find a couple more 3spds at Dads house last time I went to visit so I'll try and get some better pics soon. As well as some 215/223/262 bellhousing/clutch parts pics.

-ron

 

[CoupeBoy]

apparently I can't email them directly to you as the old forum used to give me your email address, the 'upgraded' version does not, and PMs claim to allow attachements but xls isnot allowed, but if you send me your email address through a private message or send a blank email to ron.beyer@gmail.com I'll send you a couple xls spreadsheets.

-ron

 

[SoCar72]

Fair enough. I know how to restart a machine when I get the error messages. My computer ingenuity ends at MS Office and CAD, other than plugging the hardware together.

I sent an email to the provided address a few minutes ago. PM me (I just figured out what those crazy icons to the right are) if you don't receive it. I also just found your website (same icons to the right of your posting), good info on the T5's and yokes. I found the History page sometime back on a web search, but didn't realize there was more related to the site.

 

[Junk-Falcon]

it had a twist tag on it , saying 62 falcon , it looks like a steal one but alum
charlie