81 Fairmont 200 six fit in a 64 Falcon?

[TucsonHooligan]

I have a 64 Falcon 2 door with a 170 and a 1970 c4 transmission. Will a 200 six out of a 1981 fairmont swap out with my motor and mate up with the c4 tranny? What are the benefits/drawbacks to doing this if its possible? Does the 81 have all kinds of smog regulators and later year wierdness, or is it similar to the older 200's they put in the early Mustangs? Any help on this is appreciated.

Jim

 

[Bort62]

I have a 64 Falcon 2 door with a 170 and a 1970 c4 transmission. Will a 200 six out of a 1981 fairmont swap out with my motor and mate up with the c4 tranny? What are the benefits/drawbacks to doing this if its possible? Does the 81 have all kinds of smog regulators and later year wierdness, or is it similar to the older 200's they put in the early Mustangs? Any help on this is appreciated.

Jim

Yes and maybe.

If it is not the "Big Bell" 200, then 100% yes. If it is the "Big Bell" then I do not recall if it retains the earlier mounting patterns.

I also do not recall which year the Big Bell motors came into production.

How's that for sort of informative?

Other than the transmission, everything else will fit. The benifit is a better flowing head, 30 more CI, hardened valve seats, etc.

The drawback is lower compression. The smog stuff is all ancillary and can be taken off.

 

[BUZZ]

You should have no problems swapping to the 200 it'll fit right in, you'll have to change the bell on your c4 but that's no problem because thats the main tranny Ford used behind the 200 on almost all the foxbody 200's. As far as the emmissions go all you need to do is block off the egr hole on the intake and strip all the smog stuff. You will need to keep the exh manifold off you older motor or go to a header because more than likely it has a lightoff cat on it.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

So just the bell housing would need to be changed? Easy enough. How much lower is the compression? Is it possible to modify the 200 from that year in the same manner as the older ones, i.e. headers, cam, intake, carb, etc? I don't want to get a motor that they don't make any aftermarket performance stuff for.

 

[Eric Rose]

If it is the "big bell" then it has the bellhousing with the larger V8 bolt pattern. You can spot a "big bell" engine easily, as the starter mounts from the bottom (6:00) like it does on a V8. On a regular 200 the starter mounts at 9:00.

You will have to swap to a C4/V8 bellhousing to use your existing transmission. Or you could go with the entire V8 spec C4 transmission (or AOD, T5, etc 8) ). I don't know if a '64 would have firewall clearance issues with the bigger bell but probably not since '64's had an available V8. Some of those who know squarebodies can tell you for sure.

An '81 will also have a longer water pump so you might have radiator clearance issues. I'm faced with that on my '78 200 swap. I may end up doing some work on the core support to move my radiator back and using an electric fan.

A good machine shop can fix the low compression issue . I have an 8:1 engine and I'm having the block milled for zero deck height and the head milled for 52cc chambers, which will yield close to 9:1 compression.

 

[BUZZ]

I'm sure someone else will either confirm that or set it straight on the bell but I'm 99% sure. Now as far as your other ? they all use the same parts I think the comp ratio is about 8.5- 8.7to1 it mainly depends on if the heads been pulled before.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Excellent. So is 350 dollars a good price for one that has 35,000 miles on a rebuild and in full functional order? Comes with everything. Sounds like a steal, but I'm not sure. What do you think?

 

[Eric Rose]

As far as the emmissions go all you need to do is block off the egr hole on the intake and strip all the smog stuff. You will need to keep the exh manifold off you older motor or go to a header because more than likely it has a lightoff cat on it.

You should be able to mount your current carb to the 200, if not go with a Carter YF as they are easy to tune and have very little in the way of emissions controls. Keep the Duraspark distributor from the '81 and grab the control box and wiring too, its an easy swap if you haven't done it already.

As far as the exhaust goes, the '81 manifold will seal with a doughnut gasket instead of the flat gasket used in '62. I plan on welding the doughnut flange on my exhaust and using the EGR style manifold because it looks much less restrictive than the '62 manifold I have. Unscrew the EGR plumbing from the manifold and install some pipe plugs in its place

 

[BUZZ]

Sounds good to me does it come with a bell?

 

[Bort62]

Excellent. So is 350 dollars a good price for one that has 35,000 miles on a rebuild and in full functional order? Comes with everything. Sounds like a steal, but I'm not sure. What do you think?

That sounds like WAY too much.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

How much should I offer him then?

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Dunno about the bell, will have to ask. I could find one pretty easily elsewhere I'm sure.

 

[Eric Rose]

I paid $140 for mine but I didn't know anything about the history and it came with no guarantee. I just assumed it needed a full rebuild and tore it apart.

If its a running engine and still in the vehicle, see about doing a compression test before it is pulled.

Oh, one more thing is that with the low mounted starter on the big bell motor might interfere with your center link on the steering. If that happens you might try reaming the holes out and mounting it upside down.

 

[TucsonHooligan]

Excellent. Thanks for all the advice gentlemen.

 

[Eric Rose]

Dunno about the bell, will have to ask. I could find one pretty easily elsewhere I'm sure.

C4/V8 bells are as common as well... dirt. Any good junkyard should have a couple of them laying around.

 

[Bort62]

Here's my approach with buying used motors.

Unless I know the person who is selling it, I treat it as a rebuildable core.

So, unless it is coming out of a friends car, or a car that I have driven and know that it runs well - I pay core price and no more.

It's just too easy to sell a junk engine as "runs well, low mileage."

350 $ will get you most of the way to a budget rebuild on a 50$ core motor... so you are risking a lot for very little gain.

I would probably offer in the 100 range on that. Most people give these things away...

 

[BUZZ]

Eric, are you sure about that bell. I know the 250 uses the v8 bell but the big bell 200's top 2 holes are in a diferent place. You can use a v8 bell but you would have to move the top 2 holes.

 

[Eric Rose]

Eric, are you sure about that bell. I know the 250 uses the v8 bell but the big bell 200's top 2 holes are in a diferent place. You can use a v8 bell but you would have to move the top 2 holes.

Good to know. I had always thought the big bell 200 and the 250 used the same bell. I have never seen a big bell 200 before, I always thought they were an urban legend.

 

[Bort62]

Excellent. So is 350 dollars a good price for one that has 35,000 miles on a rebuild and in full functional order? Comes with everything. Sounds like a steal, but I'm not sure. What do you think?

Deleted

Alright, now I am intrigued

 

[BUZZ]

I think it has more to do with location. Junk yard 200's run from about 300-450 dollars and we don't have any U-Pull-It's so that's why I thought it was a good price.