All Small Six Need a little input

[Maketimber]

Hya Guys, I have an 81 fairmont that has A 200 six with a c4. I would like to strip all the smog off of It, but I'm not sure if there are connections to the ignition module. Also wondering if there are any other valves or controls that that may be exhaust gas driven or vacume driven That if disconnected will be a problem.
The car has an operating smog pump surprisingly and there are a shit ton of vacume lines going everywhere.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi all your Emissions system parts are Vacuum controlled and operated. The Ignition system is the DuraSpark II system there are not Valves or controls connected into it or the ICM, its a fully self contained unit with its own dedicated wiring Harness. Just so you know after you have went through all that work removing all the Vacuum Lines and EGR System about the most you can expect to gain from removing and after re-tuning the engine is only 1/2 of a Horse Power not counting the Air Pump that would be worth a few Horse Power by itself. Good luck

 

[Maketimber]

Hi all your Emissions system parts are Vacuum controlled and operated. The Ignition system is the DuraSpark II system there are not Valves or controls connected into it or the ICM, its a fully self contained unit with its own dedicated wiring Harness. Just so you know after you have went through all that work removing all the Vacuum Lines and EGR System about the most you can expect to gain from removing and after re-tuning the engine is only 1/2 of a Horse Power not counting the Air Pump that would be worth a few Horse Power by itself. Good luck

Thank you for your input. I'm not trying to gain anything by doing the smog delete, I'm trying to simplify and de clutter my engine compartment.
If I wanted to remove the carb, it'd take me twice as long with all the vacuum lines. Plus if there are any leaking vacuum hoses, the delete would fix that and maybe even cause the car to run better.

 

[Maketimber]

Hi all your Emissions system parts are Vacuum controlled and operated. The Ignition system is the DuraSpark II system there are not Valves or controls connected into it or the ICM, its a fully self contained unit with its own dedicated wiring Harness. Just so you know after you have went through all that work removing all the Vacuum Lines and EGR System about the most you can expect to gain from removing and after re-tuning the engine is only 1/2 of a Horse Power not counting the Air Pump that would be worth a few Horse Power by itself. Good luck

You mentioned retuning the engine after the smog delete, are you referring to resetting the timing? Or is there a carb adjust/tweak that I will need to do.

 

[427John]

As Bubba said the DS II ignition is stand alone from the emissions controls but the advance curve may be tailored to accommodate them so may need recurving for best performance and mileage after eliminating them. If it has a feedback carburetor (these were coming into use during this time) it will also need to be either retuned or swapped out for an earlier non feedback type. One other thing about the DS II if the module is the yellow grommet type with an extra pigtail it could be hooked up to a thermal or barometric switch thats tied into the emissions controls, if so that needs to be unplugged so that it won't give an unwanted 4 degree ignition retard under some conditions.

 

[Maketimber]

As Bubba said the DS II ignition is stand alone from the emissions controls but the advance curve may be tailored to accommodate them so may need recurving for best performance and mileage after eliminating them. If it has a feedback carburetor (these were coming into use during this time) it will also need to be either retuned or swapped out for an earlier non feedback type. One other thing about the DS II if the module is the yellow grommet type with an extra pigtail it could be hooked up to a thermal or barometric switch thats tied into the emissions controls, if so that needs to be unplugged so that it won't give an unwanted 4 degree ignition retard under some conditions.

Thanks for that insight into the potential issues with the distributor recurve

 

[chad]

"...maybe even cause the car to run better..."
I'd disagree w/the 'may'. I dont think it will but worse as
that stuff is a system designed to wrk together by guys above
my pay grade. (besides, clean-up is something I seek due 2 today's state).
But Hey, do an experiment. Take it off, all off.
8^ )

 

[bubba22349]

You mentioned retuning the engine after the smog delete, are you referring to resetting the timing? Or is there a carb adjust/tweak that I will need to do.

All of the above you will need to find out what the engines likes as fa as the Base Timing as well as X2 of the Advance Curve. Yes you always need to retune the Carb Mixture Screw and the Curb Idle RPM after making any changes. X2 Your Holley Carb is a good one but it dose have electronic hook ups that connect into the Engine / Ignition Harness so be careful eliminating those unless you want to go backwards some to one of the older model Carb's. Good luck

 

[Maketimber]

I had the time today to do the de-smogification. Air pump, all egr connections, what seemed like a box of spaghettis worth of vacuum lines, and the non functioning vacuum cruise control, all gone. The engine gets pulled this weekend and I wanted to have all the fluff off this thing. It still runs great and may even idle a little better. At the end of this weekend, Im hoping that this engine will live in my 65 falcon. I will get after the distributor next, then a Weber carb.

 

[Maketimber]

Have the engine swap done and as I mentioned above, all the smog off. I pulled the trigger on a set of headers, a Weber 32/36 And I have had the distributor recurved and "fixed up" by the distributor guy. I am currently not running the duraspark as upon installation there was a clearance problem with the falcon's power steering pump. in addition, the old Falcon distributor has a leaky advance module and who knows what shape the points are in. I'm hoping to massage the power steering pump and put the duraspark in soon. Till then it runs good, but not great.

 

[chad]

thnx 4 up-date

 

[Frank]

Have the engine swap done and as I mentioned above, all the smog off. I pulled the trigger on a set of headers, a Weber 32/36 And I have had the distributor recurved and "fixed up" by the distributor guy. I am currently not running the duraspark as upon installation there was a clearance problem with the falcon's power steering pump. in addition, the old Falcon distributor has a leaky advance module and who knows what shape the points are in. I'm hoping to massage the power steering pump and put the duraspark in soon. Till then it runs good, but not great.

That's good news! Update appreciated. If the only place the DS distributor is hitting is the end of that bracket where your arrow is, it appears the bracket could be ground down, there's an excess of material behind the bolt.

 

[Frank]

It looks like it may hit the pump itself also. A longer belt, and let the pump swing out more?
Just FYI- if nothing works and you need to keep the points distributor, the addition of a TFI module will give it as much spark voltage as DS.

 

[frozenrabbit]

Is there a way to use a small cap on a DuraSpark for a 6, like you can with one for an 8 cylinder?

 

[powerband]

Is there a way to use a small cap on a DuraSpark for a 6, like you can with one for an 8 cylinder?

YES - the first Durasparks' - the DSI (DS 1) six distributor uses same looking small dist.Cap and plug wiring as Points not the later DSII big cap and 'pin' plug connectors.
.
'76 Comet 200 on run-stand with DSI distributor using GM type HEI Ignition Module.
. .

 

[PSIG]

Yes, you can use both small caps and large cap adapters & cap on DuraSpark-I, II and III. The large caps were actually designed for the DS-I (red grommet box) in order to prevent cross-fire with high-energy versions, such as used in ("California") emissions requirements for better ignition. Ford found that the maintenance requirements reduced with the DS-I big cap on any version, so it became standard for all DS versions ("Federal") in applications where it would fit.

---

---

Module tip: There are many ways to use modules to increase spark energy, but the tip-off is if the inline resistor (Ford PINK resistor wire) is replaced or bypassed in order to allow that increased electrical current. If it still has the PINK wire intact, it is not and cannot be high-energy. The current is "choked-off". With the PINK wire or ballast, the coil only receives the reduced current like points, no matter what module you use.

With a module ("coil driver") for power switching, triggered by points, and the PINK wire intact, the system benefits from very little points contact wear or burning but still points rubbing block wear and slow shift in timing. With high-quality points, they can last 50,000 or more miles with occasional reset of gap. Some claim up to 70,000 miles with original-quality parts and occasional adjustment.

Using a module with non-contact sensors such as DuraSpark, points rubbing block wear and maintenance is eliminated (much like converting to a points replacement module such as Pertronix-I) but if the PINK wire is intact there is little to no increase in spark performance. Hope that helps.

 

[chad]

Frank, powerband and PSIG have lots to offer me here.
I know the hybred DSII/gm 4 pin. I’ve talked to some abt using the TFI
on a earlier made ford product. As I have so lill automotive theory (& esp all the systems w/electricity, particulary ‘ignition’) it would B really great for me to see schematics. go fast for less helped me a great deal w/the hybred system this way. I never saw the TFI in w/the DSII. Is it like the 4Pin, just replaces the alu finned DSII box? It looks like 4 pin is used w/TFI?

 

[PSIG]

it would B really great for me to see schematics.

A couple options for you, that have been mentioned:

First is points distributor with TFI module and TFI coil:



Next is either TFI or locked-advance DS distributors to a programmable ignition or full engine control, in this example Speeduino, but others are similar. With this, any coil, or even distributorless coil packs can be used, although the TFI coil is a good one. The controller settings are included, but ignore them for now:



The module wiring is nearly identical, but 2 wires to the controller, 1 to the coil. An example of an inexpensive kit to DIY assemble is the UA4C, with case, case end plates, pigtail harness and BlueTooth module if you want wireless tuning. The DS distributor is a VR system, so will also need a signal conditioner. While an even less expensive unit could be used, this one gives the option to do full EFI control if you decide to go that way in the future. Yes, it's a full EFI ECM, and we are only using the ignition control portion of it for this.

I hope to finish design and development of a complete and assembled (ready to install) programmable ignition controller available by summer, at a similar price or under $200.

 

[Frank]

Frank, powerband and PSIG have lots to offer me here.
I know the hybred DSII/gm 4 pin. I’ve talked to some abt using the TFI
on a earlier made ford product. As I have so lill automotive theory (& esp all the systems w/electricity, particulary ‘ignition’) it would B really great for me to see schematics. go fast for less helped me a great deal w/the hybred system this way. I never saw the TFI in w/the DSII. Is it like the 4Pin, just replaces the alu finned DSII box? It looks like 4 pin is used w/TFI?

The DS2 is a magnetic wave. It can not signal the TFI module without something in between to convert it to a square wave. (as PSIG said above.) HEI, or any of the magnetic pickup units= no TFI module. Hall Effect or Points drive the TFI.

 

[Frank]

A couple options for you, that have been mentioned:

First is points distributor with TFI module and TFI coil:

View attachment 19874

Next is either TFI or locked-advance DS distributors to a programmable ignition or full engine control, in this example Speeduino, but others are similar. With this, any coil, or even distributorless coil packs can be used, although the TFI coil is a good one. The controller settings are included, but ignore them for now:

View attachment 19875

The module wiring is nearly identical, but 2 wires to the controller, 1 to the coil. An example of an inexpensive kit to DIY assemble is the UA4C, with case, case end plates, pigtail harness and BlueTooth module if you want wireless tuning. The DS distributor is a VR system, so will also need a signal conditioner. While an even less expensive unit could be used, this one gives the option to do full EFI control if you decide to go that way in the future. Yes, it's a full EFI ECM, and we are only using the ignition control portion of it for this.

I hope to finish design and development of a complete and assembled (ready to install) programmable ignition controller available by summer, at a similar price or under $200.

Unfortunately I numbered the module from top to bottom as did gofastforless . Hopefully this won't cause confusion since we have now posted with different reference #'s. The wiring pattern is the same of course.