Add a piston ring to up compresion 4 ring I6 200

[xctasy]

My 1966 Falcon 200 block is just like yours. It's had 100 000 miles or 160000km's on it. It had been removed from the 1966 XR Falcon, and shoved into a 1968 XT Falcon, and given a really hard life. Split exhast header, split balancer seal, black as the ace of spades oil, and enough coke on the pistons and heads to fire a municpal power station, and the metallic fragments and pungent smell of sluge and leaded 97 octane in the sump.


Since the valve seats had been redone and the rocker gearwas adjustable, I've used it's reconditioned cylinder head on my 1981 Mustang. After 38500 miles or 62 000 km's, my 1981 3.3 block looked like this, even though the head gasket had been leaking for more 4000 km's since late 2010 when I got it.

So its nothing for those hard 60 thousand miles to really start ledging up the ridge above the ring lands.



See http://www.mellingcylindersleeves.com/P ... atalog.pdf

Melling Cylinder Sleeves
140 Jacobson Drive
Maquoketa, IA 52060

Sleeving is a fine option for thin wall Fords due to a major issue of insufficient wall thickness to make 180 thou of wall thickness at the thrust faces for a normally aspirated 11:1 compression engine. All Windsor Ontario and especially Cleveland Ohio made engines were lacking in at birth wall thickness. Its about 120 thou if you have no core shift. If overbored 30 thou, and if there is core shift or rust, you can get down to 90 thou real quick. So as long as you use the recomended interfearance fit as required, you'll get good results.

In your case, fist option I'd use is CSL1106 on Page 4, 10/24, a 3.671" sleeve you can finish hone to 3.68", and its 5.5" tall, but requires a specific 3.8585" bore. or +178.5 thou. It takes out most of the cylinder wall in the mid span, but locks into the deck and bottoms just fine. Its wall thickness is 93.75 thou before honing, and 89.25 thou after. You have to realise that the wall thickness is supported, and the sleeve is strong and able to cope with a 3.68 bore but I wouldn't over bore it.

Also on Page 4 of 10/24, are other kits which will finish machine to over and kits CSL194 and
CSL1173 will do this.

As an example, from page 8 of 14/24 in the Melling PDF, there is sleeve kit CSL331F, a GM 4200 I-6 2002-07 Trailblazer kit which allows me to use a stock XR6 Turbo piston in a 1963 to 2012 Falcon I6 engine block. I can use 3.632" pistons, and still have enough wall to go to 3.68".

 

[roghax85]

My 1966 Falcon 200 block is just like yours. It's had 100 000 miles or 160000km's on it. It had been removed from the 1966 XR Falcon, and shoved into a 1968 XT Falcon, and given a really hard life. Split exhast header, split balancer seal, black as the ace of spades oil, and enough coke on the pistons and heads to fire a municpal power station, and the metallic fragments and pungent smell of sluge and leaded 97 octane in the sump.


Since the valve seats had been redone and the rocker gearwas adjustable, I've used it's reconditioned cylinder head on my 1981 Mustang. After 38500 miles or 62 000 km's, my 1981 3.3 block looked like this, even though the head gasket had been leaking for more 4000 km's since late 2010 when I got it.

So its nothing for those hard 60 thousand miles to really start ledging up the ridge above the ring lands.



See http://www.mellingcylindersleeves.com/P ... atalog.pdf

Melling Cylinder Sleeves
140 Jacobson Drive
Maquoketa, IA 52060

Sleeving is a fine option for thin wall Fords due to a major issue of insufficient wall thickness to make 180 thou of wall thickness at the thrust faces for a normally aspirated 11:1 compression engine. All Windsor Ontario and especially Cleveland Ohio made engines were lacking in at birth wall thickness. Its about 120 thou if you have no core shift. If overbored 30 thou, and if there is core shift or rust, you can get down to 90 thou real quick. So as long as you use the recomended interfearance fit as required, you'll get good results.

In your case, fist option I'd use is CSL1106 on Page 4, 10/24, a 3.671" sleeve you can finish hone to 3.68", and its 5.5" tall, but requires a specific 3.8585" bore. or +178.5 thou. It takes out most of the cylinder wall in the mid span, but locks into the deck and bottoms just fine. Its wall thickness is 93.75 thou before honing, and 89.25 thou after. You have to realise that the wall thickness is supported, and the sleeve is strong and able to cope with a 3.68 bore but I wouldn't over bore it.

Also on Page 4 of 10/24, are other kits which will finish machine to over and kits CSL194 and
CSL1173 will do this.

As an example, from page 8 of 14/24 in the Melling PDF, there is sleeve kit CSL331F, a GM 4200 I-6 2002-07 Trailblazer kit which allows me to use a stock XR6 Turbo piston in a 1963 to 2012 Falcon I6 engine block. I can use 3.632" pistons, and still have enough wall to go to 3.68".

Thanks.

I was thinking buy 6 of this for slevee:
http://www.enginepartsstore.com/servlet/Detail?no=5419

here the specs from macnu...
http://enginetechcatalog.com/Interc...lt.aspx?Partno=ESL124&Product=Cylinder+Sleeve

and this piston by cheap I doesnt have idea about the status of my engine. http://enginetechcatalog.com/Interchange/InterchangeResult.aspx?Partno=P1541(4)&Product=Piston+Set

and replace the cam,rod,main bearing.

I am right about the piston? or I can but any else better to my engine, no so expensive?

thanks

 

[xctasy]

Sounds fine for sleeve and piston, and good price. I'd rather bore twice than re-hone a 3.680" sleeve to suit a stock 3.680" or 3.700" piston.

That sleeve is a Page 4 10/24 in the pdf Melling CSL124 interchange and is taller. The 200 and 250 have different bore lengths, so the supplier gives you longer ones that you have to trim down.

 

[roghax85]

Thanks

doo you think is a good idea do it:

install this pistons with normal rings http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-W489P40/

and up the cilinder to .40

Thanks.

 

[roghax85]

Thanks

doo you think is a good idea do it:

install this pistons with normal rings http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-W489P40/

and up the cilinder to .40

Thanks.

And use the actual rods, just update the piston and rings. :thanks:

 

[xctasy]

Thanks

doo you think is a good idea do it:

install this pistons with normal rings http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-W489P40/

and up the cilinder to .40

Thanks.

And use the actual rods, just update the piston and rings. :thanks:

arty: arty:
Yes, the con rods are quite reasonable. The pistons are good, and you only need to sleeve if your concerned you will break through cylinder walls and you can't clean up the bore score marks. I'd say 40 thou over might make very little wall thickness for the sleeve in Cylinder No 1, but as long as the sleeve is in properly, its better than the stock set up over bored. I'm okay if you are okay.

 

[roghax85]

That's still not tall enough to do anything for the quench, but it will help fill up that big depression a little. :roll:

Hello

do you think I can use the 2.5 pistons?

Thanks

 

[bubba22349]

Sorry you can't use the 2.5 HSC pistons they have too much pin height to fit in a 200 six, the 2.3 HSC piston will fit. MustangSix was talking about using the 2.5 piston in a 250 block as they have a much taller deck than a 200.

This is a great book to learn from
The Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook
http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=73

 

[roghax85]

Hello

the pin diamter of 2.5 is 0.9123" ? and the 0.9.122 2.3 hsc? I can machine the rod just the 0.001" right?

the 2.3 HSC http://enginetechcatalog.com/Interchange/InterchangeResult.aspx?Partno=P1541(4)&Product=Piston+Set

the 2.5 HSC http://enginetechcatalog.com/Interchange/InterchangeResult.aspx?Partno=P1576(4)&Product=Piston+Set

about the Deck Height. the diference between the piston are 0.056"

do you know the stock deck height on ford 3.3lt 200cid 1966 wirt dish stock piston?

Thanks

 

[bubba22349]

Hi roghax85,

The piston pin end of the rods don’t need to be machined they are just heated in a rod heater and pressed in place they need to be an interference fit to keep the pin in the right place.

200 CI
Stroke 3.126
Bore Size 3.68
Bore Spacing 4.08
Main Diameter 2.2486
Rod Diameter 2.1236
Rod Length 4.715
Center line to Deck 7.808
Piston Pin Height 1.511

Factory Stock deck height on 1966 Ford 200cid with dish piston = - 019 You can verafi this after you have removed your cylinder head. Turn engine so number one piston is at TDC. Clean the top of piston and the blocks deck than measure from the top of piston to top of block that's your deck height. It's a good idea to also check the number six cylinder and compare this will show if the deck is square to the mains.

To figure deck the height for a 200 / 3.3L use this formula.

½ of Crankshaft Stroke 3.126, + Connecting Rod Length 4.715, + Piston Pin Height 1.511, - Main Center line to block Deck 7.808

So we have 1.563 + 4.715 + 1.511 = 7.789 for the piston, rod, and stoke combo – the blocks height from center line of mains of 7.808 - 7.789 = - .019 deck height (piston is below the deck).

To figure deck height with your new piston just substitute the new piston pin height all else is the same.

With the 2.3L HSC
We have 1.563 + 4.715 + 1.500 = 7.778
7.808 - 7.778 = -.030 deck height (piston is below the deck)

With the 2.5L HSC
We have 1.563 + 4.715 + 1.556 = 7.834
7.808 - 7.834 = +.026 deck height (piston is sticking up above the deck) with this combo piston will hit the head.

 

[roghax85]

Hi roghax85,

The piston pin end of the rods don’t need to be machined they are just heated in a rod heater and pressed in place they need to be an interference fit to keep the pin in the right place.

200 CI
Stroke 3.126
Bore Size 3.68
Bore Spacing 4.08
Main Diameter 2.2486
Rod Diameter 2.1236
Rod Length 4.715
Center line to Deck 7.808
Piston Pin Height 1.511

Factory Stock deck height on 1966 Ford 200cid with dish piston = - 019 You can verafi this after you have removed your cylinder head. Turn engine so number one piston is at TDC. Clean the top of piston and the blocks deck than measure from the top of piston to top of block that's your deck height. It's a good idea to also check the number six cylinder and compare this will show if the deck is square to the mains.

To figure deck the height for a 200 / 3.3L use this formula.

½ of Crankshaft Stroke 3.126, + Connecting Rod Length 4.715, + Piston Pin Height 1.511, - Main Center line to block Deck 7.808

So we have 1.563 + 4.715 + 1.511 = 7.789 for the piston, rod, and stoke combo – the blocks height from center line of mains of 7.808 - 7.789 = - .019 deck height (piston is below the deck).

To figure deck height with your new piston just substitute the new piston pin height all else is the same.

With the 2.3L HSC
We have 1.563 + 4.715 + 1.500 = 7.778
7.808 - 7.778 = -.030 deck height (piston is below the deck)

With the 2.5L HSC
We have 1.563 + 4.715 + 1.556 = 7.834
7.808 - 7.834 = +.026 deck height (piston is sticking up above the deck) with this combo piston will hit the head.

hooo thank you Friend.

now right I am sure about what I have to do.

I have to try understand it all last weekend

I am new about engine, the is my first time that I rebuild a engine and put best piston

once you explain that I thing do this:

use this pistons and get a set to totalseal pistons-rings

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-W489P20/

in case no exist the totalseal ring, I thinking to use moly rings.

let me know what you think.

another question:
1.exist any oil pump high pressure or high volume?
2.what are the kit on summitracing for head freeze plugs?

Thanks
the pics:

 

[MustangSix]

The pistons look like a .030" oversize already. This block has been bored.

The crank and rod bearings are standard, so the crankshaft has not been turned.

 

[bubba22349]

So far I have never used the Total seal rings but I like the concept, since the 1980's I have only used the molly rings in my engine builds they are very good and long lasting. Your bore size now is 3.680 + .030 = 3.710 so those pistons are too small to fit. If your bores will clean up with a .040 over bore than you need a 3.720 size piston. Otherwise there are .060 over at 3.740 don't know if there are any pistons in a 3.730 size but doubt it. Make sure your cooling system is in top condition for .040 and up. For a street car I try not to use more than a .040 over bore, if yours is more of a race car that's not used much than .060 over might work.

.040 over Bore Size 3.719 in.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-W489P40/

.060 over Bore Size 3.739 in.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-W489P60/

another question:
1.exist any oil pump high pressure or high volume?
2.what are the kit on summitracing for head freeze plugs?

1. They don’t make a high pressure (HP) or high volume (HV) oil pump for the 200 but you really don’t need one. Better would be to mod your oil pan for the type of performance use you are planing for the car.

Melling M-65B
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-M65B/

Sealed Power Z22441146
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-224-41146/

2. They don't make a kit for Head Freeze plugs like they do for a short block, so you usually just buy them individually as needed. The Head freeze plugs are 1 inch or in metric size a 25.4mm, brass is best to use, Dorman is one company that makes them. Think these are the right ones but it’s a set of 10 lot more than you need.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-565-017/?rtype=10

Short Block Freeze Plug Kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-381-8013/

 

[roghax85]

So far I have never used the Total seal rings but I like the concept, since the 1980's I have only used the molly rings in my engine builds they are very good and long lasting. Your bore size now is 3.680 + .030 = 3.710 so those pistons are too small to fit. If your bores will clean up with a .040 over bore than you need a 3.720 size piston. Otherwise there are .060 over at 3.740 don't know if there are any pistons in a 3.730 size but dout it. Make sure your cooling system is in top condition for .040 and up.

another question:
1.exist any oil pump high pressure or high volume?
2.what are the kit on summitracing for head freeze plugs?

1. They don’t make a high pressure (HP) or high volume (HV) oil pump for the 200 but you really don’t need one. Better would be to mod your oil pan for the type of performance use you are planing for the car.

Melling M-65B
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-M65B/

Sealed Power Z22441146
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-224-41146/

2. They don't make a kit for Head Freeze plugs like they do for a short block, so you usually just buy them individually as needed. The Head freeze plugs are 1 inch or in metric size a 25.4mm, brass is best to use, Dorman is one company that makes them. Think these are the right ones but it’s a set of 10 lot more than you need.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-565-017/?rtype=10

Short Block Freeze Plug Kit
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SLP-381-8013/

Thanks

I bought the Totalseal and the piston flat top to 3.700 and put new cylinders sleeve to the block. I hope to run very nice engine.

about the oil pan. where I can read to mod the mine. I am look for a street race / day use too.

I have another question.

I am looking the set ARP bolt to my cilinder head, but I like to but it on Summit. do you know how find it, or the size of the bolts?

Thanks

 

[bubba22349]

On an oil pan you will need to make your own look at this site for some ideas.
http://www.milodon.com/

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street- ... ford73.asp
This is a pan for 289 / 302 V8 (above second link) shows how the mod’ed sump shape will look like this or it can also be a T type (road race pan). Inside needs baffling or some trap doors (in a T type pan) the goal of both types is to keep the oil around the pick up tube area as the car goes around corners, accelerates and decelerates. Here is a picture of a inside of a Ford Flathead performance pan though not the same as Ford 200 pan it shows a baffle system concept is the same keep the oil around the oil pump pickup tube.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/ ... oilpan.jpg

Summit doesn’t have any listing for 200 Ford sixes for the stud’s or rod bolts the only place I know that has them in a kit is CI.
http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=28

 

[roghax85]

On an oil pan you will need to make your own look at this site for some ideas.
http://www.milodon.com/

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street- ... ford73.asp
This is a pan for 289 / 302 V8 (above second link) shows how the mod’ed sump shape will look like this or it can also be a T type (road race pan). Inside needs baffling or some trap doors (in a T type pan) the goal of both types is to keep the oil around the pick up tube area as the car goes around corners, accelerates and decelerates. Here is a picture of a inside of a Ford Flathead performance pan though not the same as Ford 200 pan it shows a baffle system concept is the same keep the oil around the oil pump pickup tube.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g108/ ... oilpan.jpg

Summit doesn’t have any listing for 200 Ford sixes for the stud’s or rod bolts the only place I know that has them in a kit is CI.
http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=28

Thanks

do you have the specs about the bolts, almost the cylinder head?

about the mod, I talked with my friend, who is help to me, to make the rebuild the kit. he tell me we are make a mild engine.

what type of mod can do for my oil pan?

Thanks

 

[bubba22349]

I don't have the stud spec's my guess is they will have same thread as your stock head bolts on one end be the same length plus 1.00 to 1.25 inch and the top threads will be USS Fine thread they could also use a flat washer and under the fine thread nut.

Oil pan mods can be simple or not depending on how much time you want to put into it. Check the pictures in my last post for ideas, for a simple one cut the sump off and add a band 1 1/2 to 2 inches and weld back to gather. You also have to drop the oil pickup tube to match. Will work good if your car is not sitting low if you have plans for a low car than build a T type pan. Good Luck