Argentina engines

dynodon

New member
I have a son in Brazil who is checking on getting me an engine for me. Also he checking on how much it would be to import rebuilt engines, since labor is cheaper in Brazil. Plus he has a good mechanic he can trust.

I wonder if there is any interest in purchacing an engine for anyone on this forum. I will hear from him in about one week, hopefully with prices. Just curious.
 
Let us know some prices definitely and there might be a good turnout of poeple lookin for somethin!
Matt
 
The engines are probably gonna be very cheap :D ....the problem will always be freight charges... :cry: ......let us know what you can come up with :wink:

Alex
 
8) you might consider just getting cylinder heads along with the intake and exhaust manifolds instead. the shipping would be cheaper than whole engines.
 
I agree with rbohm, the value for us is in the heads and intakes, some will want exhaust manifolds but guys like me will just make another header. Im not sure the bellhousing matches anything we have.
 
The pictures I've seen have the starter motor in an other position, with a large flange where the starter normally is on the high-mount US and Aussie engines. The engine mounts look the same three bolter jobs. The gearboxes and bell-housings do look different. There are quite a few posts on these engines, some really nice ME and SP engines have been posted in the past.

Addo tried to get us all on board getting some information on the bellhousing bolts for 188/221 Argie engines, but it didn't filter through.


The transmissions and clutches may have been the garden variety units used on the earlier 144/170/200 sixes, but who knows? The Brazillan made 2.3 Lima engine got into the facelifted 1975 to 1995 versions, a long with the t5 gearbox, but the sixes got 3 on the trees, and goodness knows what automatic (C4?)

The ancient 272 Y-block was built until the early 80's in Torino-based LTD's, which got a 221 cube I6 in the base model, according to my 1981 World Car Guide. They got FMX gearboxes too. So its quite possible the Falcons got remnants of these gearboxes. If so, that would explain the bellhousing differences. Wouldn't it be nice if the 188/221's were SBF?
 
Possibly they're Big Bell specs. Martín would know, but work pressures are keeping him away more than not. The real economy there is apparently going from bad to worse and the Gov't is trying to conceal it...

There is an (off topic) joke about an Argentinian and a Brazilian (told in favour of the Brasiliero)...

That aside, I am happy to trace an Aussie bell pattern and post it anywhere, tomorrow morning, if it helps. 46Stude cleared up the flywheel bolt PCD issue.

Adam.
 
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4114 :P :P :P

PART A.Aussie tall block 200/250 engines, and the 3.3/4.1 X-flow variants, have the following bellhousing pattern and flywheel details:-


The pitch centre diameter of the four 3/4 inch head bolts on the back of the bellhousing is always 7.625 inches from the centre of the crankshaft. The bolts are arranged (clockwise from left as viewed by driver )

No. 1 275 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 5/8 " outwards

No. 2 334 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 5/8 " outwards

No. 3 22 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 5/8 " outwards

No. 4 85 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 5/8 " outwards

Starter is indexed at 56 degrees, and the driving gear is 6 7/8" outwards

Dowel one is at 281 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 5/8 " outwards

Dowel two is at 16 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 5/8 " outwards

The flywheel is often 13.385 inches in diameter, often with 160 teeth, and is started by a three bolt starter. The centre section is SBF, with around 3" flange diameter, 1.75 " inner pcd for the six bolts, and 1.375" pilot bearing as per most SBF and all US 250's. But the US cars use 148, 157 or 164 teeth flexplate/flywheels. Most are Oz equiped with BW autos, not the better C4 trans option which had a different bellhousing to the US cars, but the same trans behind it. Toploader bellhousings were avalible from the factory 1972 TC Cortinas and early 1971 to 1972 XY/XA Falcons. Castlemain Rods Shop stock a blank bellhousing if you cannot source one from Aussie. http://www.rodshop.com.au/bellhousings.htm. T5's were also available, but are fairly rare. Never use a 3.3 5-speed behind a 4.1, they aren't T5's and will blow to pieces.

The automatic BW 35 and 40 transmissions are small, light and efficent when the kickdown is set up to factory spec, but very weak. Unless you import spares, don't bother running it. They are only three speeders, too. 4-speed autos were reserved for the OHC versions, which have yet another 5-bolt pattern whic is still not SBF. darn Aussies, why didn't they copy the US Fords?


PART B.I have measured the FMX/ AOD transmission bell, and have come up with these specs, should anyone like to build a 5/8 to half inch adaptor plate to mount one.

( I have been working on my slanted six version of the I6, but before that I had to make up an adaptor early on to fit a better 4-spd auto to my project engine. The breakage ridden AOD may not be the first choice for a hot V8 or F150 300 I6 punter unless its been modified, but it is quite Ok behind a 250 six. And cheap too).

The pitch centre diameter of the six 3/4 inch head bolts on the back of the bellhousing is generally 8.25 inches from the centre of the crankshaft, but some are smaller, equal or bigger than this dimension. The bolts are arranged (clockwise from left as viewed by driver )

No. 1 273 degrees clockwise from vertical, 8 1/4 " outwards

No. 2 299 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 7/8 " outwards

No. 3 343 degrees clockwise from vertical, 8 3/4 " outwards

No. 4 16 degrees clockwise from vertical, 8 3/4 " outwards

No. 5 57 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 7/8 " outwards

No. 6 81 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 7/8 " outwards

Starter is indexed at 106 degrees, and the driving gear is about 8" outwards

Dowel one is at 290 degrees clockwise from vertical, 8 1/4 " outwards

Dowel two is at 68 degrees clockwise from vertical, 7 3/4 " outwards

For Aussie passenger cars with 351's, there FMX's ran a 164 tooth flexplate/flywheel. After the V8 returned in Windsor form, it was back to 157 teeth.These are on the lower right of the bellhousing as viewed from the car. US AOD's and FMX's shared a good deal of architecture with each other. The big bell housing 200 i6's, and all 250's used this type of placement from the factory, so as long as you remove the unbalance from V8 flywheel, you'll be able to bolt the US trans to the Aussie block. The AOD/FMX is designed to run with drive form a carnk centre section which is SBF, with around 3" flange diameter, 1.75 " inner pcd for the six bolts, and 1.375" pilot bearing as per most SBF and all US 250's. If you place a 0.375 to 0.5 inch adaptor on the bellhousing, you'll need to machine a spacer of the same depth to meet the further away torque converter. The pilot must butt up to the torque converter as it would have on the vehicle you stole the trans from...
 
Have your son check with Martín. Martín was trying to locate a head, intake and exhaust for me for some time but was running into problems with some new laws concerning the origin of the used parts. You had better have papers of where the parts came from.

Good luck, short of getting a crossflow the ME head would be the way to go.

Ric.
 
Hey guys,

Brazilians probably have 221 ME blocks for F100 trucks. Those were all made in Argentina AFAIK. You should investigate the paperwork issue. I don't know how it is in Brazil, but here in Argentina, the blocks are numbered and registered the same way as the chassis. So, to legally buy a block for export, you have to go thru some burocratic BS.
Bell patterns, that is interesting. I know some local Falcon used the Saginaw tranny. Too bad I sold mine.
 
My son just returned from Brazil and we are still checking on cost and shipping arrangments. My son has lived and worked in Brazil for several years and does importing and exporting to and from the states.
As soon as I have anything positive to report I'll be back.
 
very nice!!! good luck, bringing in the Argentine cylinder heads would be a good thing.
 
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