Been gone for a while, I'M BACK... and into the Intake! PICS

[Anonymous]

Hello there everyone, sorry I have been out for quite some time, things have been very busy the first two months of 2004... lots of work, no time to work on the Mustang, till today...

I finally got a chance to tear into the intake and change the gaskets, looking for an intake leak that I could not find....


So I pulled the carb and adapter, and the intake...
I found no visible signs of a leak on the gasket, but the intake itself came right off, nothing holding the gasket and the intake together, the gaskets are sealed to the head, but the sealer is gone from the intake side.

Couple of things I did notice...
1. the large burn spot above the headers? not sure if this is a leak, or simply my bad paint job burning off???
2. the intake valves are coated in a black icky residue... I was not expecting them to still look like stainless polished valves, but was not expecting quite this much gook... but if I am running with a leak, and I was sucking in oil for the first 1000 miles after the rebuild...

look at the pictures, drop some opinions, I am planning on sealing it back up in the morning, with new gaskets from Mike, and Ultra Copper on them... should I change the exhaust while I am this far? in case that is a leak? or should I leave it alone, what a pain to pull the headers again, but these gaskets I have now are much better quality than what is in there....

Thanks

Jimbo

 

[addo]

That looks like an exhaust leak all right! Not that it is the cause of the iffy running.

 

[Anonymous]

Is there an easy way to get the intake gaskets off the head? they are pretty heavily stuck.. I can use a putty knife but it will take time to be careful...

can I soak them with gasket remover and then have a go?


I think I will pull the headers and install this one piece gasket, tis very nice, and cannot hurt anyhow.

 

[Falcon62]

I have to agree, some paint burning is to be expected, but that looks like it's blowing right past the gasket.

Your intakes look pretty bad for so few miles. Hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like they're oil caked and that may well have been from the oil-sucking problem you were dealing with during the first 1k miles. Don't ask me what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

 

[Anonymous]

They are oil caked... can this be cleaned? would some water in the throat be enough once it is back together? or does this require more hands on cleaning?

I know the pic is hard to see, they are all coated in oil, all of them....

I also think they may be sticking a little when run cold, seems to idle very rough at cold temps, then wants to stall, this may explain that problem, I also wonder if I really solved the oil issue? could it be that oil could be getting in here from somewhere other than the straw PVC thing I had going on earlier?




Deep breaths.

 

[gtm1086]

: I don't know. The picture of your intake looks like it has been leaking. the gasket appears to be wet. intake port on left side of picture.

As for the carbon build up. Go to your local boat shop and pick up a bottle of engine tuner. This is a product that is meant to clean out carbon deposits in two cycle and four cycle marine engines. It works very weel. You simply slowly pour it down the throat of your carb. with the engine running at a fast idle. Let it sit for several hours then restart. Warning it will really smoke when first started. Run it at a fast idle for a few minutes then go take it out and floor it to clear it out.

 

[CobraSix]

You can try a fuel system cleaner...they can help clean up valves. But if you had the PCV leak, I beat that's the source of the oil.

Part of the paint peel looks like bad paint, the other part looks burn. It's probably a combination of the two.

slade

 

[Anonymous]

Well I got one of the gaskets off the front of the intake, the other one will have to wait till the morning.

They were both leaking, around the top of the runners the seal on the engine side is fine, on the bottom they pull right off. Oil and gas in there, burned a little on the back too.

But the intake side when I pulled the manifold was totally soaked through to the outside... slipped right off.

I only used a base high tac sealer when I installed this, then I read about fuel and what happens to sealer in intakes, looks like I should have used the copper or something stronger...


I think I will go ahead and pull the headers, change both gaskets, seal up with ultra copper top and bottom, and clean the internals with the boat cleaner... I am also going to pull the valve cover tomorrow and re-seal that, I need to trim the edges around the intake runners, I have a small leak there...


much to clean up and tweak, hopefully when I am done changing gaskets, sealing the valve cover, and getting the internals clean, this will help out in getting to the bottom of things...



Is there anything I can do to paint that so I will know if I solve the leak? also to help clean it up a bit? or will it just come off again?

what about cleaning and using some POR15 right in that area?
Jimbo

 

[Falcon62]

Jimbo - If you can clean the surface where the paint burned off, you can recoat it with hi-temp engine paint. I wouldn't use POR-15 because it isn't intended for high heat areas (they might have a hi-temp formulation though).

I've had good luck with Chevron Techron for cleaning valve deposits in a running engine, but sometimes the burned on oil turns to coke, and well, it's hard to get it off.

 

[Mustangaroo]

Jimbo,
When you replace the intake, one way I check to make sure of no intake leaks is to shoot starter fluid onto the seam where the intake and head meet if the engine rev's up while at idel, when you do this you have a leak, spray all along the gasket even the underside where you can, I have found many a leak this way without having to remove the intake as you did to find your problem! Between my Aussie 2v and my son's we have found this is the big problem area for vacumn leaks! Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately because I ported the exhaust on my 2V I have even less surface area for my header gasket to contact. Since then about 1500 mile ago I recently had the inlet off and noticed that I had a small fracture in the header gasket where yours appears to be leaking. I then checked the tension on the header bolts which I had previously done up past the recommended tension. I did this this because the book tension specs just didnt seem tight enough at all to me.
Recently I found that they were very loose again inspite of my efforts so subsequently I tightened them up even more than previously until they all felt quite firm by hand (who designed these things youve got to be a contortionist, give me a Crossflow please).
Someone also recommended if I do replace the header gaskets I use two together. I probably need lock nuts from "somewhere"? as you appear to have. For now there are no strange noises coming from it and it seems to be holding. Note: Some discoloration does appear to be normal around this area
I made my own inlet gaskets and used reasonably thick gasket paper.
Best of luck Tim.

 

[Anonymous]

Jimbo;
After you get this running again, go and get 2 cans of BG44 (from NAPA). It's $20 per can, so be prepared. Run a can through your gas, then a tank without it, then another tank with it again. This will clean those intake valves almost like new. It's pricey stuff, but nothing else works as well. If you use the "fuel and carb cleaners" that go into the gas, they eat the gaskets out of carbs and ruin them in short order. That stuff is good for injectors, but not carbs.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mark...


ONE MORE NOTE:

I removed the header this morning, yep, gaskets were blown on three of the runners...

a lot of the bolts were loose in the locks, guess I am going to have to just tighten them till they feel right, then check them again in a bit, and install the locks after they are secure, I am also going to use some Heavy Duty Lock tite on them.

It was a good idea to do this, the thing was not on tight at all, four bolts backed out by hand no wrench!

Oooops!

 

[strat1960s]

Jimbo,

Welcome back!

I too have been having problems with intake and exhaust gaskets. AZ Coupe has some nice gaskets as you already know. I installed the new gaskets last weekend and so far so good. If these don't last for me, I may look into having some custom copper gaskets made.
When I had my Clifford dual out headers installed in December, the mechanic neglected to tell me that I needed to re-torque the header bolts after 100 miles and the thick gasket that Clifford sells blew out. Well, I have discovered since I am running an Oz head, in order to re-torque my header bolts, I need to remove my intake manifold, which is not a very quick or simple task.
I have been told by several mechanics not to put loc-tite or any thread locking adheisives on exhaust bolts. Doing this often causes the bolts to snap off when the time comes to remove them.
The only thing I can tell you is to get a few intake manifold gaskets so you can remove the intake to re-torque your bolts, or figure out some way to get in there with a wrench and rachet.
Welcome back!

 

[Anonymous]

What should I use on the intake gaskets as a sealer?

I have heard various opinions, from nothing to Ultra Copper Sealer.

Although on the back of the Ultra Copper tube it says Do not use on Head or other gaskets in contact with gasoline?

Should I get something else to seal the intake?

what do you guys use?

I just installed the new gasket on the headers, and I hope I got them on fast enough before the copper setup... takes 24 hours to completely cure, but it was rubbery on the outside by the time I got all the bolts in... took some time to line them all up, what a pain, I really do not want to have to do this again anytime soon...

I can get a wrench in on the bottoms with the intake installed, but the two in the center are a pain, you can get to them from below, takes some arm bending though....

I am going to check them each ride for a while before I install the locks, and I did use loc-tite on them, these are stage8 bolts... if they break they break, I would rather they do not come out. But I do not think they will be breaking, I used loc-tite on them the last time, and some of them were loose as I mentioned before...


hope this is better, the gasket is much better than the little pieces, the worst leak there in the middle was because the other gaskets were not wide enough to come out past the spot where the port divider was welded in, it was blowing right past the gasket on top there, the new gaskets come all the way up out of that flange.... should be a lot better.


? some advice on the intake would be appreciated, I am going to install it in a little while this afternoon....


thanks

 

[Anonymous]

ccording to Permatex, their HYLOMAR HPF flange dressing is the recommended product for fuel contact... I will use this, this time and see how it goes...

Rather not put Ultra Copper through the intake if I do not have to...

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not too good at this I think...

On my second round of getting the bolts to torque a lot of the copper squished out... probably had way too much on there...

but since it is the exhaust and not the intake, I am not too concerned, but I need a lesson in gasket dressing!

 

[Mustangaroo]

Jim,
My son and I use nothing to seal the intake with we never have, Azcoupe has some new thicker gaskets that should do just fine without sealer.

 

[gtm1086]

For intake gaskets. pretty much install clean and dry. If you do want to coat them try permatex #3 this is the stuff you brush on. Unless you used a high temp lock tight on your header bolts the lock tight will fail. It won't hurt anything it just won't prevent the bolt from backing out. Best thing to do is coat them with a little anit seize torque then after you have run for a few miles and everything has cooled down torque again. You may need to do this a few times.

 

[Anonymous]

Jimbo- what kind of header is that? That looks like a nice thick flange..

I've always heard, and in my experience, that you have to check/retighten the header bolts after a few heating/cooling cycles..

I think Hooker recommends putting a line of silicone (red or the ultra copper I think) lengthwise down the bolts... it's supposed to keep them from backing out some...

On my Mustang (302 w/ tri-y's) after I drove it and let it cool off, I'd check the bolts.. of course the first time they were a bit loose, but after that they maybe took a 1/4 turn at the most... I still check them every once in a while, and they're fine so far.