All Small Six Best EFI for my 200

[WillingnessLimp]

I apologize for reviving an old thread, but wanted to see if there were any updates on Aces Deuces install?
I’m in a pickle now, as I’m looking into new carb options (Weber 38/38) and everything with adapter, linkage, spacer and so on comes out to about $620. Clifford Performance offers the kit for $760 (apparently pre jetted for an inline 6). That’s a good chunk for new carb, so I started considering EFI as well. Was looking into Deuces 2V from Aces with the fuel pump as well (efi system is $611 plus $400 for the fuel system, little over $1,000 total. But they have some promos now).
Was wondering if EFI is even worth it for extra money spent.
And if it will even have enough hood clearance, as I will need the adapter as well. Anyone knows what’s the height for the 2300 adapter from Vintage Inlines?

 

[Otto]

I guess it depends on what your goal is for this vehicle or what problem you're trying to solve. EFI can be wonderful or frustrating depending on your mechanical ability or aptitude especially on a conversion of an older vehicle. There are kits available from vendors which should make it a bit easier for your particular vehicle, but should be viewed as a starting point and you will have to exert some energy to get the install to the finish line. Also a lot of folks assume they can just bolt parts on and the system will learn all by itself and just figure it out- this isn't really true and you'll still be "teaching" the system with adjustments. Some people enjoy this kind of thing some don't.

I adapted a vehicle to EFI by using a litany of junkyard parts and had a tuner create a custom "tune" for my application. I think now we're on the fourth iteration of the tune. It's not perfect but has reached "good enough" status. This process takes time and a good relationship with the tuner, plus the ability to collect data from the system and communicate with the tuner. My DIY system cost about half of the price of a kit in the end and I learned way more about FI than I planned for.

You didn't mention ignition but I highly recommend the EFI system controlling ignition so you get the full benefit of the EFI system. Otherwise it's just an electronic carburetor. Don't want to dissuade you from entertaining EFI (it's great when if functions properly), just have clear eyes going in. I'm sure there are threads here where folks have detailed their EFI journey. Best of luck!

 

[Duke5A]

Can't speak to Aces, but I have to imagine they're feature parity to Holley. I have a Holley Sniper on a brand X project and the self learn got it close enough that it only required minor tweaking. I made some edits to the fuel trim at idle and timing adjustments for a digital vacuum advance. Did all on a laptop using Holley's software. No expensive tuning sessions required.

I agree with Otto. If you're going to do it then you want timing control with it. Holley makes a distributor for my brand X project and it included a molded plastic cap to phase the rotor properly. There is no such setup available for us, so you'll have to figure out rotor phasing on a locked out distributor for yourself. I think there is a sticky thread concerning it.

 

[Frank]

In truth I'd consider the Holley 1 barrel. Can't remember if your cam is stock but if so- the 1 barrel has many advantages over the 2 barrel, Aces or Holley.
1) The 2 barrel TBI is way too big for the small engine and restricted intake throat. It will be harder to learn the mixture. It will have overly sensitive throttle response. At 1/3 throttle the system will be delivering as much air as the engine can take, WOT @ 5500 RPM will be using 35.1% of the total cfm capacity. A 200 CID engine with 80% VE will draw all the CFM of the 2 barrel TBI @ 12,525 RPM. The 1V Sniper is made for the log intake, airflow and metering will be flowing directly into the intake as intended. The Holley 1100 is an upgrade, it flows more than the stock carb.
2) The 2V has the huge 5 1/8" filter housing neck. An adapter adds height, or use a 4 barrel filter housing, both present potential issues. In my experience, the couple of times I tried an adapter to use a different filter housing it did not work well. The Holley 1100 will use the stock air filter housing, stock manifold mounting and stock linkage, or close to it. Any brand 2V will require reconfiguring the throttle linkage more or less completely.

For daily drivability- snappy throttle response, maximum low-end torque and fuel economy, smaller is always better, TBI or carb.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Thank you all for the input!
@Otto I already got DUI dizzy. I’m not ready to spend more on one for the EFI specific one. It will work, but you are right, you wanna get all the benefits of EFI and ignition working together.

@Frank you have very good points about Holley Sniper 1V EFI. Their system is a bit more costly tho. After considering all the factors and my budget I’ve decided to stick with Weber. Even had a thought yesterday to give a try the Chinese version of the carb, but ended up ordering a genuine one.

I did put 267/267 cam from Clay Smith Cams. Bored cylinder 20 over and decked the block a bit to restore compression with felpro gasket. Will have VI headers as well. Just a mild weekender. Can’t wait to feel the difference in the car, as I barely drove it after purchase before i pulled the engine out.

 

[bmbm40]

Weber is good from what I read. Don't know if you might be interested in how Carter and Rochester small base 2 barrel carbs are sometimes now being mounted on what so far has been large log heads, but opening up the hole on the existing carb base increases flow with these user designed and machined adapters. May work with the 38/38 don't know for sure as that might not be a small base carb so the dimensions would need to be confirmed. Just a consideration while you are in the planning stage. You mentioned the VI Weber 1V-2V adapter height which I don't know but this might help with clearance.

 

[bmbm40]

I almost forgot about this valuable project from beanmiester:

https://fordsix.com/threads/weber-32-36-or-38-38-adapter.89774/

It seems to be intended for manifolds with the carb riser machined off for direct mounting of 2v carbs but could be useful.

 

[DON]

I think he is going to do one for the uncut intakes.
I don’t think there is a standard bolt pattern for the modified intakes

 

[Frank]

I’ve decided to stick with Weber. ended up ordering a genuine one.

This is the best solution in my opinion (which I would have kept to myself had you chosen TBI.)

My reasoning: The weber is sized correctly. Simplicity!, no computers and major high-pressure fuel mods to a classic vehicle. Here's the biggie: even though looking at TBI with the fuel spraying in all the way around the bore perimeter looks like it would meter and distribute better that a carb it does not. Too many tests to count in dyno rooms show that a carb always has better cylinder-to-cylinder distribution than TBI. On some V8 intake configurations the mixture variation between cylinders was as much as 10.5:1 to 15:1. "A hidden killer". Consider: a carb is shredding the fuel apart in a high airflow speed vacuum. Fuel is atomized by the airstream and further vaporized by the vacuum. TBI is squirting liquid fuel into a relatively low velocity low vacuum airstream. There is proportionally very little atomization, the fuel is left to break up and vaporize "on it's own".

TBI can run good for many. In individual cylinders it is not actually all it appears to be. Port injection has advantages over a carb (except maximum power ratings) but other than the convenience of not having to tune a carburetor, the TBI has none.

 

[funkaholik]

@WillingnessLimp Good luck with your Weber project. Let us know how it goes!