building first 200ci..

[inlinepony]

hi all,

my younger brother and i just got a '66 mustang. its been in a garage for 10 plus years so i decided to rebuild the motor while we put the rest of the car together. i have some general and some not so general questions for those who are more fluent with these motors. this is my first ford.

1. the motor needs to be bored, which will put it at .060 over.

2. i also found that the exhaust ports for 3 and 4 have a factory cast port divider. is this common?

3. i would like to install a higher performance camshaft, but i am not sure which measurements i should go with.

4. i was also wondering if it is possible to flat mount a 2 barrel carb on a small log intake.

5. it has adjustable rocker arms so does this mean i can shave the head for added compression?

thank you in advance for any help. i am new to this forum as well as these motors. but id like to pick up on them the further i go.

-Alex

 

[rocklord]

hi all,

my younger brother and i just got a '66 mustang. its been in a garage for 10 plus years so i decided to rebuild the motor while we put the rest of the car together. i have some general and some not so general questions for those who are more fluent with these motors. this is my first ford.

1. the motor needs to be bored, which will put it at .060 over.

2. i also found that the exhaust ports for 3 and 4 have a factory cast port divider. is this common?

3. i would like to install a higher performance camshaft, but i am not sure which measurements i should go with.

4. i was also wondering if it is possible to flat mount a 2 barrel carb on a small log intake.

5. it has adjustable rocker arms so does this mean i can shave the head for added compression?

thank you in advance for any help. i am new to this forum as well as these motors. but id like to pick up on them the further i go.

-Alex

Alex,
Welcome to the forum. Onto your questions.

1. Are you going with a 60 overbore because you have to or you want to? If you have to, OK. If it's because you want to, I would suggest only going with an overbore sufficient enough to restore the cylinders. Two reasons: a 60 overbore is the maximum you can go with the 200, so if any additional boring is required later on, you will have to find another block then machine that one; the other reason is that the cylinders are starting to get thin at 60 over and if the molds shifted during casting, you could have a potential weak area in one of the cylinders. If you go 60 over, you may want to test the cylinders for wall thickness (sonic testing) before any machining.

2. No, a cast-in divider between exhaust port 3 and 4 is not common. If fact, one other member just posted a picture of his 67 head that has a factory divider. It was determined to be more of a curiosity than a special (re: valuable) head.

3. The cam choice is dependent on a lot of factors: transmission, carburetion, rear gearing, vehicle use (daily driver, track, drag racing, and such). Talk to Mike with Classic Inlines. He can recommend a cam based on the use of your vehicle.

4. It would be very difficult to direct (flat) mount a 2 barrel carb on a small lot intake. Since you are doing head work, I recommend finding a later year head with a casting code D7, D8, E0, or E1. These heads have hardened valve seats, larger valves, and the larger log intakes for direct mounting a 2 barrel. You may be able to find one of these heads for less than $100 and be money ahead.

5. Adjustable rocker arms are the recommended way to go even with hydraulic lifters. With adjustable rockers, you would be less likely to need shorter push rods if you shaved the head for added compression.

I highly recommend purchasing the "The Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook". This handbook will answer the above questions and more.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Route--66--]

Hi
I'm gently toying with the idea of a rebuild too - am also a newbie at engine rebuilding..
I spoke to a local engine rebuild place last week who said the best would be to bring it in then once apart they can tell me what parts to order (I am in the UK so would have to be sure to get the right parts 1st time as shipping and import tax almost doubles the cost of parts :x )

Anyway, looking at the master rebuild kits on rockauto site it allows you to pick options - e.g. .02 , .04 over etc..
but .. how will I know how much 'over I need? .. is it just a case of knowing exactly what the diameter of the bore (and for shells what diameter the crank) should be and then selecting .02 or whatever accordingly?

if so are there very definite sizes of bores and crank sizes for a 1965 200ci (5 core plug, so assume 7 main bearing) engine?

Cheers!

 

[Xargon321]

Go to the ClassicInlines.com web site they have the stock spec on a 200 I6 motor and a wealth of other thing there.

 

[MPGmustang]

1) refer to rocklords post, he nailed it perfectly.

2)refer to 4, it's not common, and so far I think they have only been found on earlier heads. but they aren't as valuble as one would hope. except if you wanted to put in a port divider, then it's worth keeping it if on a budget.

3)refer to 4, what's the use of the car? I'm running a 264/274 110 .450, the idle sit's a little higher, roughly 900rpm to keep it smooth, it's not too bad really. If i went with another cam, I would go with the 274/274 112 .450, I think would help top end more. thing to remember with our cam shafts and cast iron heads, we can run more duration and our idle will still be reletivly smooth. hopefully you're going manual to get the most out of the engine. (I vote single grind unless you want more intake duration than exhaust)

4) it has been done before, I say why not. the combustion chambers are better on the earlier heads compared to the later heads, if you keep it in a simple budget, do the 2bbl mod and port the intake side only leaving the exhaust alone. (better response with low exhaust ports with higher exhaust flow system) then go for the cam shaft depending on head flow, you want the exhaust to flow 65-85% of what the intake flows for best results, if its in that range you can go with a single grind if it's lower you can go with a dual grind to improve the exaust right where you need it. there are options, one is putty build up, proven truely durable on a turbo'd 250, recently the option to get it brazing on is awesome basivly the brazing will make it one with the cast iron as if from the factor, should be even stronger than the putty. or you can port the exhaust side just enough and go with a single grind.

5)best ones to have... yes you can shave the head, you can even shave it if you had non-adjustables, the hydralic lifters can compensate I think for .110 of an inch, so if shaving .75 you're still safe with normal peices, a good trick is to run washers under the pedastals instead of replacing the push rods, make sure to deshape the rear washer center for oil flow.

it might be a ford but the same basic mechanic's apply for all engines, each has it's own personality but same knowledge is applied. you'll do great on helping this 6 banger. oh and welcome to the forum!

 

[Route--66--]

Go to the ClassicInlines.com web site they have the stock spec on a 200 I6 motor and a wealth of other thing there.

Cheers Xargon

 

[inlinepony]

thank you guys,

the block needs to be bored due to cylinder out of roundness.

i can deck the block, shave the head, port and polish the head and bore/ hone the block myself. the only machining i cant do myself is the intake for the carb mount and the crank.

as far as the head, where can i locate a head with large log? would a 250 head work?

cam selection wise, i plan on going with a T5 in the future so it will remain a manual, and i would also upgrade the rear end accordingly. id like to have a cam designed for strong acceleration.

i really appreciate all of your input. this forum is really nice and informative.

-Alex

 

[MPGmustang]

there are two kinds of acceleration, the first is off theline, the second is passing. to get off the line you can choose a warmer cam or lower gears (higher numericly), and passing you go little between mild and wild.

I have my power in the higher RPM's, I would really like it to sit at 2400rpm cruise if possible at 65 and run big wide tires, to do that I need 4.11' rear gear, good thing I' got the engine a head of time. I'm running the cam in my signature but would really like to try something different. I recomend the longer duration, the lower flow head would really welcome it at higher RPM's. I actually want to try the 280* hydrolic cam that CI has on thier website, but that's later.

Any 250 head will bolt on, no mod needed. Make sure to ask around and do things in order, Like if you want a port divider that would go in first, ect... My engine shop had a 78 head and block that I just traded them for. good deal for me.

 

[rocklord]

thank you guys,


as far as the head, where can i locate a head with large log? would a 250 head work?


-Alex

Look for a head either from a 200 or 250 on a 1977 or later vehicle. The same head was used on both engines. Verify the casting code on the head before purchasing. You are looking for a head with a casting code starting with D7, D8, E0, or E1. The letter designates the decade C=60s, D=70s, E=80s. The number designates the year in the decade. So a head beginning with D7 was designed in 1977. The casting code is when Ford designed the item, so a vehicle built in 1981 may have a head with a casting code of D7. So don't think if you find a later vehicle, that you are automatically getting a later head. Verify.

The inline six was installed in Fairmonts, Zephyrs, 79-82 Mustangs, Granadas, Fox based LTDs, and Mavericks. Don't pass up on heads from earlier vehicles; they may have had the engine or head swapped.

As an aside, a design code can become the designation for a part. The C-4 automatic was designed in 1964, and the C-6 auto in 1966.

Hope this helps.

 

[inlinepony]

hey all,

have the motor torn down, block and head have been hot tanked. rebuild kit has been ordered. gonna bore and hone the motor next week. i reconditions the rods today. cam should be in any day now. i went with a Clay Smith 278/278 with 460 lift with 1.5 rockers. i will eventually go to an aluminum head as well as 1.6 rocker arms but thats a little ways down the road. for now it will be a flat mount two barrel head when i make it out to the junkyard to get one. i will also be raising the rear end ratio. the cam calls for a minimum 3.00 axle ratio.

anybody have tips on removing the little freeze plugs in the head?

 

[MPGmustang]

drill??? then pick it out

I like your plan, don't put too much into the head as you'll just swap it over. unless of course it's free/your time.

the 278 .460 is a great cam, what lobe center are you choosing? I hope something lax, like 112 or even 114, you will not need 50* of overlap with the alum head.

FWIW, lower flowing heads are smoother idle with long duration cams, when you add the amazing alum head, it will chop up (not much but noticeable) unless you keep the overlap around 46* or lower.

the 1.6 rockers will add more overlap height (not duration) and chop it little more IMO.

Plan ahead, the Alum head comes with 52cc chambers, plan your existing head to have the same and deck the block according to desired CR. this way you don't have to raise the CR through unconventional means.

for now it will be a flat mount two barrel head when i make it out to the junkyard to get one

I hope the carb, cause no head had a 2bbl on it to start with, only 1bbl's. JY is great for good carbs. Even a 2bbl adapter on the 1bbl hole will give 20hp more than a stock 1bbl.

 

[inlinepony]

i see. ill try that when i get back to it. thanks.

CSC 278-12 SST
adv. dur: 278/278
@ .050: 228/228
lift at 1.5: 460/460
lobe center: 112
rpm range: 1800-6000

the head i have right now has 52cc chambers. im getting stock dished pistons but im gonna shave the cast iron head that i will be using for now. would i still need to lower my compression when switching to the aluminum head? i'm aware they weriend flat mount two barrel stock heads. i plan on finding a later model flat log head to mill over the small log ive got now.

 

[Route--66--]

Nice one chap !
Where are you getting the rebuild kit from by the way ..? .. I was thinking of one of the ones from Rockauto . . ? . . they are brilliant at shipping to the UK FAST and prices are good .. .

Cheers!

 

[MPGmustang]

in the end, the main goal is to have the CI Alum head the same specs as the cast iron, this will help tune your engine better when you swap heads. also you'll have a really great veiw of the difference of what the alum head has really acheived.

dish pistons are best, I heard they help better with the quench, the 112 lobe center is great, and I would really like to get the hydrolic version of that cam and slap it in my engine. you will make great power with that cam and a 2bbl direct mount.

How much head work are you having done besides the basic rebuild/refresh and 2bbl? are you going to try and put bigger valves in and port/polish?

IIWIYS I would go as cheap as I could on the head as you're swapping it out eventually, meaning a 2-1bbl adaptor on a later head with stock parts, maybe some stronger springs for the cam and mill for CR but that's all I would do to keep costs down and get me that much closer to the alum. my 78 log head I think so far I have little over 1k invested in it, and I could have been at least 1k closer to the alum at this point if I kept it simple and basic.

 

[chad]

"...go as cheap as I could..."
he's got some of his own machining equp....

Whadda U got - millers, grinders, shapers, lathes?
8^0
Can U handle some of our other member's needs? (C the 'sticky" Mike set up for us all).

 

[inlinepony]

i am currently going through my local college's automotive tech program. but i have a good friendship with my engines instructor so i can do most of my stuff on the motor after hours when i get the machinery to myself. i have access to a hot tank, large bead blaster, iron cylinder head broach to shave the mating surfaces, aluminum head cutter, boring machine, honing machine, cylinder head benches to do all necessary valve work and porting like 3 angle cuts as well as removing and installing seats. machining seats, guides and stuff. various lathes, connecting rod reconditioning and a number of other things. im currently only working on my own stuff and im not sure how easy it would be to have a steady stream of peoples parts coming through. if you are local then it may be easier to work something out. i just dont want to make it a habit otherwise it might appear as if im USING the shop for more than what its intended for. and i wouldnt want to ruin it for other people. i do have to pay a materials fee for some of the stuff i do. but its far cheaper than going to a machine shop. so im trying to take advantage of all i can without over doing it.

that being said, for a rebuild kit i will be going through a local shop who i go through for most everything. but a number of my friends go through rockauto. decent stuff.


the late model head will probably just have a 2-1 adapter until i can work out all i need to mill it. ill leave the stock valves in it as they will be larger than the ones i have now. my instructor used to build motors for cars that ran at Bonneville so im gonna go with whatever he says to do with the heads. like polishing the exhaust ports and cleaning up castings and anything else. the cam is also coming with matched valve springs so theres nothing to do other than swap springs over when the time comes.

correction, the head i have now checks out at 54cc so ill bring those to 52 to better match the aluminum head. starting to get anxious about putting this thing together now.

 

[chad]

automotive tech program
OK, thank you, different story than I imagined.

instructor used to build motors for cars that ran at Bonneville
Kouwell! Like to 'sit @ his feet' - ur lucky.

Also these are a lill different and there's some folks (actually many of them) here w/just as much experience but specific to I6 and can lend (over) 50 yrs. of that knowledge, trial & error, etc if interested (that's you AND them). Also a line on some prts that may not B found elsewhere...stay open - give it a try...Let's C if they turn up?

Thanks for the opportunity to look in on yer project!

 

[JackFish]

Have you got a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook?
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

 

[chad]

"...building first 200ci..."
I like the way U put that: FIRST

may B try the 144
/OR/
300/4.9
next!
Ask the instructor bout the 300 if unfamiliar. Really sompin! FTE has a great forum on it as does this site.
Used to have a few Slant 6 vehicles (when they were new). But 40 yrs. later I really like what ford offers more (6 or 7 motors, there seemed to B only 2 different mopo 6s).

 

[inlinepony]

yeah its pretty cool learning from him. hes built a few ford 6 powered cars at Bonneville. even built a jimmy that went pretty quick. im open to many different views and opinions. on break right now so im itching to go back there and start.