Can you please tell me more about my c4?

[Anonymous]

I just bought a C4 out of the trading post. The guy didnt know what it originally came out of. He said it was a v8 box with a 250 bellhousing.

Can you guys tell me anything about this box from these codes;

He claims it has a 3500 stall converter. Is there anyway to tell by just by looking at it?

A 3500 is too high for my street driven cortina. Can I use my standard stally from the bw 35?

He says the box had been recoed about 10, 000 ks ago to stage one specs. It also came with a flex plate.

He also said it doesnt have an inspection plate. Will I be able to use the inspection plate from my bw35 (in my pre-crossflow 250 cortina)?.

Is there anything else I will need (besides linkages, and shifter) to get this working with my 250 alloy head 86da, e2 crossflow in my tc cortina?

Is there anything missing form the gear box that should be there?

Here's some more pics;

Do you guys reckon this was an ok deal for $350?

Thanks for your help.

 

[addo]

If it was $350 on your doormat, probably a decent price. I'd disbelieve all the "Stage I" and 3500 stall stuff until you can prove it... Consider it a used C4 with almost everything you need, and feel contented.

You need a kickdown linkage and the selector arm may not work if you're column shift (which I doubt you are). BW lower cover plate will go fine. Weigh it, and then weigh the Borgy.

As to the cooler lines - add an auxiliary cooler for sure. Get a flaring kit and tube bender to make your own steel lines. It's fun, and looks great when finished.

I cut all the lugs and stuff off the C4 case. Looks like a '50s slushie when you do that.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks addo.

How about the thing to keep my speedo correct? Can I use the one out of my bw?

 

[aussie7mains]

Looks like a stock 6 cylinder C4 to me, including a stock convertor.
just chuck it in with an oil cooler, the kickdown can be left off for the time being to get going, but dont forget the vacuum modulator.
A7M

 

[LaGrasta]

As to the cooler lines - add an auxiliary cooler for sure. Get a flaring kit and tube bender to make your own steel lines. It's fun, and looks great when finished.

I cut all the lugs and stuff off the C4 case. Looks like a '50s slushie when you do that.

addo, you're such a true car guy. I can relate all too well...

 

[LaGrasta]

If you suspect the stall is a 3500, I wouldn't put it in. What a hassle to change it later. I just bought a C4 with a 2500 stall and I'm hoping to sell it so I can buy a stock street version. If I don't, it will drink fuel like crazy.

High stalls go for $300-400. Get some prooof of what you have and sell it, recoup some of the purchase price.

 

[addo]

I would call Kayver here in Sydney with the part number (7366), to see if it's one of their converters. Even if it's not, they may know.

The OEM Ford one I had was industrial mid-green, but that may have been a different age.

 

[gassed250]

What spline is the input shaft

Converter looks to be a factory diameter if it is then theres no way its a 3500

is the modulator adjustable? have a look where the hose goes and you should see some slots that a flat screwdriver will fit into

 

[Anonymous]

What spline is the input shaft

Its 26, not 24, so that's good news.

Converter looks to be a factory diameter if it is then theres no way its a 3500

thats great news. Any idea what the factory stall speed would be?

is the modulator adjustable? have a look where the hose goes and you should see some slots that a flat screwdriver will fit into

I looked on both ends of the hose and didnt see anthing like you have described. Bummer.

 

[xctasy]

There is no aggreed standard for advertised stall speed, but the agreed SAE method is to use a stock engine to rate it .

Ford service manual quoted as 1650 rpm in the C10 or C9 as used behind the XD Falcon. Kayver have had a 2500 rpm stall option for C4 for the last 20 years.

Like fuel injectors, it could be + or - 10% so 1650 could be 1500 or 1800 without a problem. Sixes develop more low end torque than V8's. A stock 250 has max torque at about 2000 rpm, not 3000 rpm as in a 302C.

If it reads 1650 on a 302C, then it may read 1500 rpm on a six

Generally a stock
4.1 will see a similar stall to a stock 4.9. If measured on a modified V8 , a 3500 rpm stall converter could be 2800 rpm, but not likely any lower.


The more torque the engine sees, the lower the stall ratio. A torque converter is just a fluid coupling, and the more aggitated the driving wheel gets, the quicker and lower the rpm at which the stall converter picks up. V8's, especially 302C's lack off idle torque from 800 to 2500 rpm compared to a 250 six. Although car mags confirm the same 0 to 30 mph figures between an auto 250 and 302C, off the mark, a big 250 six ALWAYS shows a quicker set of heals from any 302c V8 for the first 20 meters or 60 feet. The torque converter hooks up earlier on a 250 six.

 

[aussie7mains]

Stall speeds are dependent on the torque available from the engine.
For instance the 11 inch convertor (which is what you look to have) when fitted to a 302 windsor would be about 1800rpm and if on a 351 slightly higher say 2000rpm.
The 250 and 302 W had the 11 inch, clevelands had a 12inch.
A7M

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info on the converters.

My 250 crossflow will be stock (except for roller rockers, a gra sc440 and extractors) for a little while.

Would the best converter for that be the 1800-2000 or would something lower be better?

Would a 1800-2000 suit when I put on a garret gt3582 (.7 comp cover, 1.06 internally gated rear)? Should start spooling a bit at 2000.

I want this car to be very streetable.

Oh and the converter measures 11 and 3/4 inches in diameter. What stall would this be???

Thanks.

 

[xctasy]

Great information!

The less torque the engine has from idle to maximum torque, the higher the stall.

A converter passes power by using the shear stress from a fluid to drive the automatics input shaft.

Ford ran two types of converter on the 351C. The US FMX on the 4V 351C had a 2350 rpm stall from the factory, yet the stock 2V 351C stock rating was 1650 rpm.


Ford Oz generally only used the C10 behind the 302C, and it was the same converter as the 250. Absolutely rated at 1650 rpm from the Ford factory manual.


All the old US publications I've seen have quoted stall ratio, or stall rpm.

The problem is all the aggreed C4 stall ratios were derived in Dearborn, on there engines. Not ours.

Sorry to post hog. Back to my own world of ignorance.

 

[Anonymous]

Does this look normal?

It kind of looks broken or sheared off to me. Or is that how its supposed to look?

Thanks.

 

[addo]

Looks like someone cut the yoke off with a grinder. Did you call Kayver about the converter code stamp?

 

[Anonymous]

Looks like someone cut the yoke off with a grinder. Did you call Kayver about the converter code stamp?

Is that a problem for me? Do I have to get a new one? Or can I use the one on my car?

I spoke to Hugo at Raceglides here in Melbourne about the converter. He said judging by the info and the picture (sent him an email too) he was almost certain it's a rebuilt stock converter.

That's good enough for me.

 

[addo]

That's what is left of the original driveshaft, jammed onto the universal joint cap. Have you pulled out the yoke? If it's not too worn, it could be blended with your current driveshaft - if required. The yoke itself appears to show no damage.

Replace the rear seal while the tranny is accessible. I've done it under the car and it was much less fun.

 

[Anonymous]

How much are they C4's worth? I got one out of my mates car - i helped get it out and he said i could have it for $100. Will it fit my XA? (falcon 500 250 pre x-flow xy)

thek, you might wanna fix those oil cooler lines

 

[DYNOED250]

i payed 50 bucks for a rebuilder c4/c9 from a 302w. Then 50 for a bell housing... THen 1000 odd on rebuilding /:>
so a c4 for 100 that runs seems like a good deal

 

[Anonymous]

yer, the engine was very well ceased. Rust in the manifold and the piston chambers.

But the oil in the gearbox was very red and fresh looking. Time will tell