Car Craft Magazine

[Anonymous]

As you guys might know, CC picked up a '67 Mustang with a 200 six in it. We are considering the engine build and want to know if anyone here has some combinations of parts with prices, specs, and horsepower numbers of six-cylinder builds. Let us know! CarCraft@primedia.com or post here and we will read them.
douglas

 

[Stubby]

Welcome Douglas,
I hear you have been getting some emails about that planned buildup.
Alot of the guys here are very passionate about the inline engines. We feel that the small six doesn't get the credit it deserves. The appeal isn't only in the HP potential but also in the economy factor also. You can build a car with great milage and it's fun to drive.

The traditional way to build a hot rod is to stuff the biggest engine you can get in it and that is what most want. We just want to share our ideas with the world. So don't take it personal if some of these people get a little excited and passionate about their beliefs. We are a diverse bunch and that is our common link, we like to do things a little differently

 

[Asa]

howdy Doug
almost all of the parts can be found via Mike at FordSixParts (which i'm pretty sure you guys over at Primedia already know ), Clifford Performance also has some parts
a little ingenuity is the biggest part of getting power out of these engines, milling the head and direct mounting a 2bbl, or (as MustangGeezer has done) multiple 1bbls

turbos (as evidenced by Will & Kelly's Falcon you guys showcased the other month) are the best way to go for quick power

best way to go (depending on price range) is to:
1) mill off the intake completely and fab up a new intake example
2) find an Oz 250-2V head (info on those can be found in the FSP Tech section)

just browse through old threads, you'll find plenty of info

unfortunately i don't think that many people have documented prices


EDIT: by the way, this is the big six section, these are the engines found in trucks and larger cars (cars till mid 70s, trucks till '96-97), a completely different engine

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

other than will and kelly the rest of us turbo guys are running WAY low buck. I got about $500 in my turbo swap and tommy is around $300 I think. granted I am only pushing MAYBE 200hp right now but on a STOCK MOTOR and cam. I know you will want to do a bolt together build so a turbo motor is prob out of the question.

but a six with cam, head, and header and a carb should make for a nice write up.


BTW I still get 25mpg on the highway with my T5 and 200 with 3.50 gears

 

[MustangSix]

If you have a target of around 300 hp, the only reasonable way to get there with a 200 is to turbo. At around 8-10 psi you should be easily able to reach that target at a very low rpm.

It would be fairly low-buck too. copy Kelly's example.

 

[JackFish]

Time for the David and Dennis's "Handbook" plug:
http://falconperformance.sundog.net/
I think these guys have done the work, and most here have followed their lead. Let's hope there's some credit where credit is due.
And all of us here have gained immensely from their continuing contributions and involvement in the forum.

 

[t-west]

I would think that an offenhauser 3X1 might have that "bling" factor that many hot rodders would appreciate. Cobrasix did a comparison with that and the 2V aussie head and seemed to like the offy just as well if not better. Read at http://www.kastang.net/ozversusoffy.html.

The new D.U.I. dizzy from Mike (AZCoupe) might also attract your readers.

--tom

(I can't believe I just used the word bling).

 

[jamyers]

Douglas - THANK YOU for coming here and asking! That's the first time I've EVER seen a magazine rep respond so fast/clearly/nicely to requests from fans of an unusual (ie, non Ford or Ch*vy V8) engine. Thumbs UP!

Here's info on Linc200's turbo 200, looks like a basic and low-buck setup that runs 8.90 in the 1/8th @ 85 MPH, 13.58 in the 1/4 @ 103: 8.90 in the 1/8th @ 85 MPH, 13.58 in the 1/4 @ 103. http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31477


(Guys - Douglas isn't familiar with us, our engines, our lingo, or our 'heros' (ie, Mike, Kelly et al), so we should make it as easy as possible for him to find the info here...so: anybody got a link to a clear write-up on Kelly's car, or any of the other working combinations? Anybody else have times on their cars?)

 

[Twinscrew]

Douglas- Turbos are all the rage these days, showing up on everything from street racers, to motorcyles, to daily drivers including, but not limited to, pushrod powered classics. There is tremendous potential for making big power in an otherwise "stock" combination without sacrificing drivability or durability which, after all, is like having your cake and eating it too. Given all of the interest in turbocharging across the motorsports spectrum I believe that readers would enjoy reading about a turbo build that they could emulate no matter what they drive even if it's a '67 Mustang with a 200 six under the hood. I look foward to the article.

 

[JackFish]

Most turbo setups are fabbed-up. You can't buy off the shelf parts and bolt this together. Otherwise you pay for custom work for which there is very little background.
I would prefer to see what you can get out of the motor without resorting to blowers.

 

[kspageddie]

Douglas, I think you should keep the six. It is not pretty and it is not fast, but it sure is fun. (Sounds like a new Car Craft motto). I would like to see a low-buck approach. Either 3 carbs (my personal fav ) or a direct mount Holley/Weber to a late model D8 head. Throw in some headers, cam and a dura-spark set up and you would have a nice little car that would be able to hold its own. While you are at it, put in a 5 speed too.

Thank you so much for taking the time to ask us for our opinion. This is just another reason why Car-Craft has been and will always be my favorite magazine.

 

[ASMART]

No one mentions Mike's forth coming alum. head designed by winner of Engine Masters. Please check out Fordsixparts.com

 

[turbo250chick]

Douglas,
Thank you for your interest in the 6. Also thank you for passing on the info on our '63 Falcon to Jeff Smith. As you may know the March issue featured our turboe'd 250. We estimate 300-350 hp based on ET, weight and MPH. Our total investment has not exceeded $8000. That includes the initial price of the car, turbo, cam, carb, intercooler and the recent addition of ladder bar suspension, aluminum 9 inch housing, moser axles, etc. We figure that's a pretty low buck investment to go into the 11s considering the money most racers spend on their V8s. We did the turbo fabrication ourselves, but as you can see from the replies, many I6ers are also making their own turbo setups and not going for expensive custom upgrades. I hope that all this helps in trying to sway you to keep the 6.
Good luck. We look forward to each and every issue of CarCraft.
Kelly

 

[Anonymous]

Douglas,

Our mentor CNLZ6, coauthor of Falcon Six Performance Handbook, always tells the new guys that we need to know their goal before we can advise them on their build.

Drag Car
Canyon Racer
Daily Driver
mild
street/strip
wild

68 Coupe
I started with a new Duraspark 2 from Auto Zone (78 Fairmont style)
MSD 6
Rebuilt Holley/Weber from Stovebolt Engines

Didn't make it faster but it really smoothed things out.

Next I rebuilt suspension and brakes. I used new 6 cyl supension components with midolyne bushings, cut 1 1/2 turns from coils and relocated upper a arms. Standard leafs in back with 2" drop blocks.
Frame connectors and Shelby under traction bars. Rebuilt the stock brakes with all new components. Export Brace, monte carlo bar, KGB shocks and new BF Goodrich Radial TA's made it handle great.

T-5 from a 4 cyl mustang.

Not enough power.

Changed the head and installed a 77 head professionally ported and polished with 1.75 intake and 1.5 exhaust SS valves, double damper springs and .075 milled. Direct mounted a holley 350 2 barrel circle track carb. Clifford dual out headers, 2" exhaust with Dyno Max Turbo's exiting the rear with the dual GT exhaust tips. 264/274 110 cam with adjustable rockers for a 170 motor. The block was bored .030 over and the bottom end was balanced and put together with ARP bolts. Heads installed with ARP studs. Forged pistons and the stock forged rods conditioned.

Added an Eaton M-90 blower from a Thunderbird V-6. Mounted the intercooler in front, Holley electric fuel pump, timing set at 6 degrees BTDC and vacuum advance disconnected. I installed a MSD boost controller and set it at 1 degree retard per lbs of boost. Removed the choke and choke horn from the holley, it already had solid float and a machine shop made the carb hat for me.

At 10 pounds of boost I was producing over 200 RWHP and over 300 pds of torque.

Next up is 9" rear and front spindles/disk brakes from 77 Lincoln Versailes.
The rear will have a 3.55 locker from a 79 F-250. I'll probably go with 15" TT wheels but I'm really partial to the old school looks of the Crager SS's.

You can do anything you want with a 6. There is plenty of power to be had. With my T-5 mild 200 (before supercharger, cam etc) I was getting 29 highway and 24 around town. I haven't driven much since a finished the engine. I had a little problem with the #3 rod. But I seem to still be getting decent mileage. Most like turbo and it does have it's advantages but you can make boost on our engines with a blower too.

As CLNZ6 always says, enjoy the journey

Bob

 

[rbohm]

8) douglas, you might also check back issues from a few years ago. as i recall there was an inliner from chicago that used a paxton blower on his six powered mustang. i dont remember the specifics though.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm going to play dumb But I have to ask, is a 500HP V-8 what it takes to make a hot rod/cruiser? Is it about more than 1/4 mile times? Or is that the measure of a fun car? When did it become a hobby to be like everyone else? I thought the point was to be differant, I don't see it, alot of the car mags bore me, I buy very few because the the cars in them are all alike.
I don't get why the 6 always has to go, I built my 6 in the 80's and yes performance parts we're rare and expensive and advice was limited to "Why don't you just put a 302 in that?" but I can tell you when someone takes a look at a multi carbed, headered I6 most people are amazed and the questions start rolling.
I guess my advice to Douglas and all the car building magazines, if you are lazy and un-creative go ahead and build the V-8 all the work has been done for you, you pretty much know what you are going to achieve when you bolt this part and that part onto the car I don't think there are any great unknowns.
I will stick with my I6, I enjoy a challenge 8) and being truly differant, I will stroll by the magazine stands and yawn.
I do want to thank you also Douglas for at least considering it.

See Ya,
Mike

I will now step down from the soap box

 

[Asa]

not to turn this thread into something ugly, but Mike echoes my thoughts pretty well...

i've written (but haven't sent) several nasty letters to various Mustang specialty mags solely because they just keep repeating the same builds over and over again, it's boring, there's nothing for me in there

if there was a mag that did one I6 article a year, be it Ford, Chevy, Dodge, or something else, i would have a subscription
as it is, i don't have any subscriptions

 

[ludwig]

Hot Rod did a six build up a couple of months ago. Natch, it was a Chevy.

 

[Anonymous]

Douglas I am new to the inline six performance scene but the common mods are : more fuel (carb), more spark (ignition), And more air in and out (blowers/turbos& headers). Just like you guys do on the V8s. Its simple you just have to know were to go for parts; and that would be FSPP fordsixparts.com. They have every thing you would need, well almost. By the way i have a subscription to HotRodMag and the article they did on the six was realy good i just wished it was on the ford motors.... Hint Hint Car Craft.

 

[Anlushac11]

Just my .02c

There have been a few articles in various car magazines over the years describing the build up of normally aspirated 200 I6's.

The past articles I have seeen have all concentrated on economy or what the kind of hop ups the average Joe could perform on his classic Stang in the average garage.

In my humble opinion its time someone showed what kind of power the 200 I6 is capable of.

We have seen what kind of economy can be had, we have seen what kind of power the backyard mechanics can do.

Show the readers what a properly built 200 I6 can do. If it has to be a turbo then do a turbo. Turbos and superchargers are so common nowadays that I feel it would be acceptable to build a turbo 200.

At some later date I would also like to see a article on a 200 I6 Fox body Mustang built up to similar specs as a BMW M3.