Imput on 262 camshaft regrind

rlbarton

New member
Evening All
I'm heading down to the machinist tomorrow to come up with a gameplan on my 262 build. I was hoping to entice some advice from you all on a few subjects. The shop has checked the block, head and crank and all are good to continue. The block has been shotpeened and now we need to work out the details. the cylinders will need bored, not sure how much yet with new custom pistons. we are installing new guides, seats and more than likely oversized valves in the head. I will be using the Clifford dual Webber intake and already have the Clifford header installed last summer. I am going to modify the header into a 2/4 split over the 3/3 with dual 2 inch glasspacks out the rear ,as the old cast exhaust manifold was done this way in the 80's and i love the exhaust note. First question, what other headwork or what valve sizes do you recommend? This is a driver that will see a little pickup camper use, show and shines and lots of happy miles on backroads and gravel roads. I will also be completing a t5 trans swap with 410 rear gears .This is not a race truck. Most likely it will never see 4000 rpm. My thoughts are if were here why not do what we can to help things. I have read that high lift rockers on the exhaust side work well with breathing. Ideas on where to locate said rockers?
Second question, compression ratio. I understand that if a modern thicker head gasket is used that the block needs to be machined to correct for the difference. I am already running a duraspark 2 distributor, 8.8 plug wires MSD blaster coil and MSD 6al box. What compression ratio can I safely run with this ignition setup on 87=89 octane? I always run 91 octane but want to be safe incase I'm in a location where that isn't an option. I think factory was between 8-1 to 8.5-1. Would 9-1 be unreasonable? Again, while were here why not.
And lastly and maybe most important, camshaft regrind. I am thinking Schneider cams or Delta for the regrind. Are these acceptable choices . And knowing this isn't a race motor , but while were here, do you advise a stock regrind or is there a little room for improvement? I'm asking for detailed numbers and information to run by the builder and cam shop. My thoughts here is to take advantage of the headwork and intake \exhaust improvements. Planning to send the lifters for resurfacing at the same time. I simply am ignorant on this matter and though I need to trust my machine shop, I can still verify where I'm being lead.
If there are further details I need to know about that are uncommon or easily looked over PLEASE let me know. I take the advice of those in this group to heart. Thank you for reading and your opinions in advance.
Rick
 
First off, from an Aussie point of view i have no direct experience of this engine, however an engine is an engine, it appears to be similar to our holden grey motor, just twice the size. Im fairly sure it will be 4 main bearings and being a truck engine, never designed for any great RPM. Since you say you wont be reving it past 4000rpm, then you will have to work on torque, which means anything you can do to improve breathing, and therefore BMEP. The Clifford kit 6=8f223 looks to be a good one for you to use, you need a low restriction exhaust, always, so around single 2.25 inch diameter minimum. Glasspacks (hotdogs here) are rubbish, get a good turbo muffler. Single pipes seem to work best. As to the cam, I would stay well under 205 degrees @ 0.050 something similar to the cam in the stock 200-250 engines, this will idle smoothly and rev to about 4000rpm, but have lots of midrange torque. Camshaft may turn out to be what is available. Compression ratio, I would not go above 9:1, this allows you to run any fuel you like, higher than this and any gains are going to be minimal. The weber 38DGES is a good carby and I doubt you will need anything larger, webers are very tunable. Ignition, keep what you have, thats overkill as it is. Overall, its never going to be a race engine, so keep it modest. Hope this helps in some way.
 
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My thoughts are if were here why not do what we can to help things. I have read that high lift rockers on the exhaust side work well with breathing. Ideas on where to locate said rockers?
Second question, compression ratio. I understand that if a modern thicker head gasket is used that the block needs to be machined to correct for the difference. I am already running a duraspark 2 distributor, 8.8 plug wires MSD blaster coil and MSD 6al box. What compression ratio can I safely run with this ignition setup on 87=89 octane? I always run 91 octane but want to be safe incase I'm in a location where that isn't an option. I think factory was between 8-1 to 8.5-1. Would 9-1 be unreasonable? Again, while were here why not.
And lastly and maybe most important, camshaft regrind. I am thinking Schneider cams or Delta for the regrind. Are these acceptable choices .
Keep the stock rocker arms and let the cam lobes do the lifting.

A regrind will have an .006" duration around 256 degrees which is close to stock.
If the cam is set with the intake lobe center around 108 degrees ATDC, the compression ratio will be limited to 8.6 if you want to use 87 octane pump gas.
You will want to wait until the cam specs are finalized before you figure out the compression ratio.

Either Schneider or Delta cams is a good choice for a regrind
Limit the .050" duration to 206 degrees on a 110 LSA.

Would you do me a favor and measure the width of the big end of the connecting rod?
Thanks.
 
This is a regrind Schneider did for a 223


Note: the 223 camshaft turns clockwise while the 262 camshaft turns counterclockwise.
 
This is a regrind Schneider did for a 223


Note: the 223 camshaft turns clockwise while the 262 camshaft turns counterclockwise.
That is almost exactly what I was suggesting, this would be stock timings for a modern 250 six. The VE of this engine is going to be fairly low, so 9;1 cr will work. I cant compare your octane ratings as you guys use an average of ron and mon. We only used ron.
 
The 1951 to 1953 215 Six's (very first OHV Ford Six of that same engine family), for its time the stock cam grind was hot compared to those of the 223 & 262's, Intake Valve opens at 18*BTC and closes at 68*ATC with a Duration of 276* and the Exhaust Valve opens at 55* BBC and closes at 22*ATC with a duration of 267*. This kind of explains why the early Hot Rod-ers used the Barker High Lift Rocker Arms only on the Exhaust Valves in Dyno test's back then these were said to add 5 H.P. The Stock Rocker Arms are marked with EAA and EBP these Rockers will measure at a 1.43 to 1 Ratio there were also suppose to be some EAG Rockers that were used in the 1952 to 1956 Trucks only that were a 1.52 to 1 Ratio. Edited
 
Keep the stock rocker arms and let the cam lobes do the lifting.

A regrind will have an .006" duration around 256 degrees which is close to stock.
If the cam is set with the intake lobe center around 108 degrees ATDC, the compression ratio will be limited to 8.6 if you want to use 87 octane pump gas.
You will want to wait until the cam specs are finalized before you figure out the compression ratio.

Either Schneider or Delta cams is a good choice for a regrind
Limit the .050" duration to 206 degrees on a 110 LSA.

Would you do me a favor and measure the width of the big end of the connecting rod?
Thanks.
Thank you for the input. I didn't see the post until i got home tonight but will call down and have the machinist measure the big end. I did see the rods tonight and the big end had already been completed and ready to go. the little side has yet to be touched, we sat down and came up with a gameplan and are moving forward. Looks like custom pistons (ouch) are going to be in my future, but thats ok. He also recommended a near stock regrind and thought a compression ratio between 8.5 to 9 to 1 would be all he would recomend.
Interesting side note. this motor that has never been apart as far as i knew, at least not after 1976, already had hardened valve seats in the head and a composite headgasket . From my limited reading that was not the norm for that motor. interesting details for a beginner like me. Could be that what i thought to be not possible may very well be so.
 
I just finished a 223 build, it’s not in the truck yet so I can’t give you drivability details yet but on the stand it ran great! I did the Clifford intake, header but went with a single 38mm Weber because I wanted to run a manual choke with the original oil bath air cleaner( converted to paper filter). I used Steve Long for the cam regrind out of corona, ca. which. Is a Clifford’s grind. I can share my cam card with you. I’m running close to 10:1 compression with no issues on 91 but only ran in on a test stand so far. Block is .060” over bore then .060” off the head and .020” off the block. Small block Chevy 1.94/1.50 valves with mild port work and bowl blend. I also have a duraspark II dist. From DUI with total timing at 34 degrees at 3000 rpm. Stock rockers.
I would recommend Schneider cams for the cam re-grind they do great work!
Curious on the 2/4 split and how that would affect scavenging and with the increase in valve size?
Good luck with your build!
I included a short video of mine running and an old Clifford catalog of cam specs.
 

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Keep the stock rocker arms and let the cam lobes do the lifting.

A regrind will have an .006" duration around 256 degrees which is close to stock.
If the cam is set with the intake lobe center around 108 degrees ATDC, the compression ratio will be limited to 8.6 if you want to use 87 octane pump gas.
You will want to wait until the cam specs are finalized before you figure out the compression ratio.

Either Schneider or Delta cams is a good choice for a regrind
Limit the .050" duration to 206 degrees on a 110 LSA.

Would you do me a favor and measure the width of the big end of the connecting rod?
Thanks.
Sory for taking so long to get back to you. Working long hours six days a week. I thought those days were behind me by now, but here I am. The machinist gave me numbers for the big end of the rod as 2.4230 - 2.4238 . but now as I reread your question I don't think that is what you were looking for. Now I see you wanted width not I.D. Next time I'm down there I'll take a measurement myself and get back to you. Apologies for my limited understanding, I'm learning as I go. But at least I'm learning!
 
Now I see you wanted width not I.D. Next time I'm down there I'll take a measurement myself and get back to you. Apologies for my limited understanding, I'm learning as I go. But at least I'm learning!
No problem. That is correct. I would like to know what the width of the rod is at the big end to see if there is any aftermarket rods from another engine that could be used.
Thanks
 
i I just finished a 223 build, it’s not in the truck yet so I can’t give you drivability details yet but on the stand it ran great! I did the Clifford intake, header but went with a single 38mm Weber because I wanted to run a manual choke with the original oil bath air cleaner( converted to paper filter). I used Steve Long for the cam regrind out of corona, ca. which. Is a Clifford’s grind. I can share my cam card with you. I’m running close to 10:1 compression with no issues on 91 but only ran in on a test stand so far. Block is .060” over bore then .060” off the head and .020” off the block. Small block Chevy 1.94/1.50 valves with mild port work and bowl blend. I also have a duraspark II dist. From DUI with total timing at 34 degrees at 3000 rpm. Stock rockers.
I would recommend Schneider cams for the cam re-grind they do great work!
Curious on the 2/4 split and how that would affect scavenging and with the increase in valve size?
Good luck with your build!
I included a short video of mine running and an old Clifford catalog of cam specs.
Papas61 thanks for the info. The little I have been able to learn is the 223 cam was ground to have a bit more "pep" than the 262 . The 262 being more of a large truck motor than a lighter truck or passenger car . This could be completely incorrect as it just what I've read online in passing in other forums. I will pass it along to Delta cams as I shipped the cam there last monday. I advised Delta on the upgrades I have done and the way I plan to use the truck and am putting my faith in their experience. Time will tell if I made a wise decision.
As far as the 2\4 split exhaust goes, dad had this done in around 1980 on my truck. That's the sound I grew up with and what I want to keep. As far as I know It doesn't do anything for performance. in fact more than likely hinders it. I'm ok with no gains. I just find something very tangible with the smells, vibrations and sound from this truck that reminds me of all those days with dad fishing, cutting wood and spending all weekend getting lost on gravel roads. Even the loss of a few HP is worth it to me for that very specific 2\4 split through twin glass packs.
Thank you again for your advice, I appreciate it .
Rick
 
Keep the stock rocker arms and let the cam lobes do the lifting.

A regrind will have an .006" duration around 256 degrees which is close to stock.
If the cam is set with the intake lobe center around 108 degrees ATDC, the compression ratio will be limited to 8.6 if you want to use 87 octane pump gas.
You will want to wait until the cam specs are finalized before you figure out the compression ratio.

Either Schneider or Delta cams is a good choice for a regrind
Limit the .050" duration to 206 degrees on a 110 LSA.

Would you do me a favor and measure the width of the big end of the connecting rod?
Thanks.
Got the cam and lifters back and took them down to the machine shop tonight. They measured a few rod ends and they were very consistent. 1.064 to 1.065. Most were 1.0645. hope this helps. sorry it took so long.
 
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