A
Anonymous
Guest
douglas":3d64fm2d said:
It would be nice if you could be more specific what your goals are and intended usage is.
It would be nice if you could be more specific what your goals are and intended usage is.
I think we got a bit out of line an chased him away. Primeda is the only publishing firm that is listening to us, and trying to do their part by responding to our request. CarCraft just published an inline article (a turbo at that), as did Hot Rod. Mustang Monthly is working with FSPP on an economy performance build. Mustangs & Fords just shot Marley's six for a feature coming this fall, and is working with us on yet another build up, which will be injected, and possibly boosted. Plus they are working on a "Six Cylinder Performance Guide" for the June issue. Which will include suggestions on parts, performance mods, and tuning tips. As well as the three basic build stages as outlined in the Falcon handbook. Douglas goes so far as to join our forum and post a question to us, seeking our assistance.
Their business is to sell magazines, and like it or not, the same ole V8 articles sell copies. The editors have stepped up to the plate and convinced the publisher (their boss) to take a chance on our beloved inlines. Primeda is taking a step off the beaten (and proven) path, resulting in more features and articles in 2006, than any five consecutive years in the past. And how did we respond?
He did not ask for our opinions, or criticisms. All he asked was, what part combinations have been used, how much was invested, and what were the results. Only one reply made an attempt at answering his question but failed to break down the cost of the engine mods. Some were even a bit on the rude side. Not one single reply answered his question directly.
Sorry guys, but personally, I don't think it was a very gracious welcome, much less the answers he was looking for. I'm ashamed, and as such, sent him a personal apology via e-mail.
Their business is to sell magazines, and like it or not, the same ole V8 articles sell copies. The editors have stepped up to the plate and convinced the publisher (their boss) to take a chance on our beloved inlines. Primeda is taking a step off the beaten (and proven) path, resulting in more features and articles in 2006, than any five consecutive years in the past. And how did we respond?
He did not ask for our opinions, or criticisms. All he asked was, what part combinations have been used, how much was invested, and what were the results. Only one reply made an attempt at answering his question but failed to break down the cost of the engine mods. Some were even a bit on the rude side. Not one single reply answered his question directly.
Sorry guys, but personally, I don't think it was a very gracious welcome, much less the answers he was looking for. I'm ashamed, and as such, sent him a personal apology via e-mail.
A
Anonymous
Guest
AzCoupe,
I don't think I chased him anywhere. I tried to provide information he requested. My journey and the peaks, valley's and stops along the way.
I gave him horsepower numbers but could not really provide a cost estimate, I don't track it too much, afraid I would quit if I knew the cost.
Maybe your post should've said that "your afraid some of our responses may have chased him away."
I'm not sure I want alot of advertising about our sixes if you want me to be completely truthful. The reason we do it is to be different, the more that learn about it the less different we will be.
I'm sure you want all the advertising you can get, the more that know the more you can sell, which I completely understand. The one advantage to me would be the more you sell the cheaper you can offer your product. But if it was about cheap for me I would build a Chevy 350 in a Nova.
AzCoupe, I'll take a reprimand if I feel it is deserved but I, nor a lot of others that posted didn't deserve it.
Bob
I don't think I chased him anywhere. I tried to provide information he requested. My journey and the peaks, valley's and stops along the way.
I gave him horsepower numbers but could not really provide a cost estimate, I don't track it too much, afraid I would quit if I knew the cost.
Maybe your post should've said that "your afraid some of our responses may have chased him away."
I'm not sure I want alot of advertising about our sixes if you want me to be completely truthful. The reason we do it is to be different, the more that learn about it the less different we will be.
I'm sure you want all the advertising you can get, the more that know the more you can sell, which I completely understand. The one advantage to me would be the more you sell the cheaper you can offer your product. But if it was about cheap for me I would build a Chevy 350 in a Nova.
AzCoupe, I'll take a reprimand if I feel it is deserved but I, nor a lot of others that posted didn't deserve it.
Bob
kspageddie
Well-known member
kspageddie":3heskfhp said:Douglas, I think you should keep the six. It is not pretty and it is not fast, but it sure is fun. (Sounds like a new Car Craft motto). I would like to see a low-buck approach. Either 3 carbs (my personal fav) or a direct mount Holley/Weber to a late model D8 head. Throw in some headers, cam and a dura-spark set up and you would have a nice little car that would be able to hold its own. While you are at it, put in a 5 speed too.
Thank you so much for taking the time to ask us for our opinion. This is just another reason why Car-Craft has been and will always be my favorite magazine.
I believe my comments were very welcoming.
I didn't mean to jump down anyones throat, and do feel some (if not most) of the post were informative. I was merely pointing out that we failed to provide the infomation he was seeking, plain and simple. He wanted specific combinations, prices, and the performance gains.
I would say it is pretty unusual for a magazine editor to go so far as to register in a forum and ask the members for assistance. That in itself, is proof that they are making an effort to understand our goals, our passion for the inlines, and a willingness to work with us. Yet a couple of the later replies were (in my opinion) critical and rude, rather than informative. Knowing how passionate and outspoken most of us are, my intentions were to point out that future post should be informative and to the point, rather than critical in nature.
It is quite clear that in his opinion, it is not cost effective to build a performance six when the goals are 300HP or more. And we all know there are many others that share the same opinion, which is why swaps are common place (and sell issues). Rather than telling him to do this or that, we need to convincing him that building a performace six on a budget, is possible. Sure, we would all love to see a really hot and/or unusual six published, but that is not the point of this topic. Hopefully, some of our members will respond with the information he is seeking.
Has any one of our members built a 300 HP small six on a limited budget? If so, do they have the precise parts used, the cost, and dyno sheets to back it up?
I know that many of us did not post info on our builds simply because we did spend a fortune, but we did so intentionally. We are passionate inliners and therefore except the fact that it does cost more to build a unique powerplant. But I would have to say, if it were merely about horsepower, I doubt many of us would have kept the six and would have went to the dark side as well. Then we too, would be screaming for more swap orientated articles. Remember guys, we are a minority and the rest of the world does not agree with our reasoning or passion. Including magazine editors.
Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings.
I would say it is pretty unusual for a magazine editor to go so far as to register in a forum and ask the members for assistance. That in itself, is proof that they are making an effort to understand our goals, our passion for the inlines, and a willingness to work with us. Yet a couple of the later replies were (in my opinion) critical and rude, rather than informative. Knowing how passionate and outspoken most of us are, my intentions were to point out that future post should be informative and to the point, rather than critical in nature.
It is quite clear that in his opinion, it is not cost effective to build a performance six when the goals are 300HP or more. And we all know there are many others that share the same opinion, which is why swaps are common place (and sell issues). Rather than telling him to do this or that, we need to convincing him that building a performace six on a budget, is possible. Sure, we would all love to see a really hot and/or unusual six published, but that is not the point of this topic. Hopefully, some of our members will respond with the information he is seeking.
Has any one of our members built a 300 HP small six on a limited budget? If so, do they have the precise parts used, the cost, and dyno sheets to back it up?
I know that many of us did not post info on our builds simply because we did spend a fortune, but we did so intentionally. We are passionate inliners and therefore except the fact that it does cost more to build a unique powerplant. But I would have to say, if it were merely about horsepower, I doubt many of us would have kept the six and would have went to the dark side as well. Then we too, would be screaming for more swap orientated articles. Remember guys, we are a minority and the rest of the world does not agree with our reasoning or passion. Including magazine editors.
Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Douglas,
Loyal reader and subscriber since 1982 here!
Heres what I did (and prices) to my 200 in my 66 Mustang just to give you and idea on a naturally aspirated build up,
78 block bored .060 over $90.00
Crank turned and straightened $125.00
Block 0 decked $45.00
Fully balanced $175.00
ARP head stud kit $105.00
ARP rod bolt kit $55.00
Clay Smith cam package W/ cam bearings, double roller timing chain & gears, lifters & .480 lift 274 duration cam $291.00
Chrome moly pushrods $45.00
Corteco gasket set $55.00
Dual valve springs $90.00
Header $275.00
7 quart oil pan $245.00
Hi-Po balancer $215.00
1.6 ratio aluminum roller rockers $415.00
Flat top pistons (10.5:1 compression) $185.00
1.75 intake 1.5 exhaust oversize valves $110.00
Rings $75.00
Teflon valve seals $15.00
Rod bearings $42.00
Main bearings $42.00
Holley 500 cfm 2 Bbl $225.00
Accell 8.8 plug wires & U groove plugs $100.00
Duraspark distro $99.00
MSD 6a $149.00
MSD blaster coil $39.95
Oil pump $29.95
Misc $400.00
Electric fan $99.00
Total cost=$3836.90
On top of all that I installed a 3500 rpm stall convertor last summer and I've grenaded two 7.25" rearends.
Currently I'm installing a rebuilt 8" rearend with an Auburn posi unit and 3:80 Richmond gears so add another $1000 on top of the engine cost and you get a realistic look on what it takes to run mid 14's with a engine that would be lucky to propel you to a 21 second qtr mile time in its stock form!
In my opinion build the bottom end like mine and add a turbo like Will & Kelly did and you could hit your 300+ HP baseline pretty easily.
Oh.....and keep the "On the rack" girls and "Krass and Bernie" cartoons please!!
Later,
Doug
Loyal reader and subscriber since 1982 here!
Heres what I did (and prices) to my 200 in my 66 Mustang just to give you and idea on a naturally aspirated build up,
78 block bored .060 over $90.00
Crank turned and straightened $125.00
Block 0 decked $45.00
Fully balanced $175.00
ARP head stud kit $105.00
ARP rod bolt kit $55.00
Clay Smith cam package W/ cam bearings, double roller timing chain & gears, lifters & .480 lift 274 duration cam $291.00
Chrome moly pushrods $45.00
Corteco gasket set $55.00
Dual valve springs $90.00
Header $275.00
7 quart oil pan $245.00
Hi-Po balancer $215.00
1.6 ratio aluminum roller rockers $415.00
Flat top pistons (10.5:1 compression) $185.00
1.75 intake 1.5 exhaust oversize valves $110.00
Rings $75.00
Teflon valve seals $15.00
Rod bearings $42.00
Main bearings $42.00
Holley 500 cfm 2 Bbl $225.00
Accell 8.8 plug wires & U groove plugs $100.00
Duraspark distro $99.00
MSD 6a $149.00
MSD blaster coil $39.95
Oil pump $29.95
Misc $400.00
Electric fan $99.00
Total cost=$3836.90
On top of all that I installed a 3500 rpm stall convertor last summer and I've grenaded two 7.25" rearends.
Currently I'm installing a rebuilt 8" rearend with an Auburn posi unit and 3:80 Richmond gears so add another $1000 on top of the engine cost and you get a realistic look on what it takes to run mid 14's with a engine that would be lucky to propel you to a 21 second qtr mile time in its stock form!
In my opinion build the bottom end like mine and add a turbo like Will & Kelly did and you could hit your 300+ HP baseline pretty easily.
Oh.....and keep the "On the rack" girls and "Krass and Bernie" cartoons please!!
Later,
Doug
well as Mike said noone really addressed what Douglas was actually looking for and I believe most of us are afraid as its not like going out buying and intake, cam, and headers cheap and get really good results. so heres my buildup tally, and almost all parts were new and I am sure you could save alot by simply ebaying parts....
1979 D8 casting code head with a bigger log, valve job, crack fixed, milled, new seats, and a few other things......... $250
FSPP Cam 110* lobe center 264 duration .........$110 plus shipping
FSPP valve springs...........$85 plus shipping
Teflon valve seals ...........$15
JE performance timing chain...........$99 plus shipping
Turbo off a ford probe............ $101 w/shipping
greddy type S BOV............. $50 w/shipping
carb hat.............$60 w/shipping
Holley 500 cfm 2300 series 2v carb........... $230 w/shipping
really thats it for "performance" upgrades, I have full MSD ignition w/a revlimiter, blaster 2 coil, electronic dizzy from the 79 stang, a transgo shiftkit, I took off my headers for the turbo, umm I feel as if I'm forgetting some things.... oh and without the turbo and with the headers the car ran 17.8's in the quarter mile.... ya I know its slow but still thats 5 seconds off stock and I havent made it to the track with the turbo.... I'll get there eventually
1979 D8 casting code head with a bigger log, valve job, crack fixed, milled, new seats, and a few other things......... $250
FSPP Cam 110* lobe center 264 duration .........$110 plus shipping
FSPP valve springs...........$85 plus shipping
Teflon valve seals ...........$15
JE performance timing chain...........$99 plus shipping
Turbo off a ford probe............ $101 w/shipping
greddy type S BOV............. $50 w/shipping
carb hat.............$60 w/shipping
Holley 500 cfm 2300 series 2v carb........... $230 w/shipping
really thats it for "performance" upgrades, I have full MSD ignition w/a revlimiter, blaster 2 coil, electronic dizzy from the 79 stang, a transgo shiftkit, I took off my headers for the turbo, umm I feel as if I'm forgetting some things.... oh and without the turbo and with the headers the car ran 17.8's in the quarter mile.... ya I know its slow but still thats 5 seconds off stock and I havent made it to the track with the turbo.... I'll get there eventually
A
Anonymous
Guest
I sorry I did not mean to be critical or rude and if I offended I am sorry , I may have gotten a little confused as there were a couple of posts quite similar and I should of posted elsewhere most likey, If you feel my post was inappropriate please remove it.
See Ya,
Mike
, I may have gotten a little confused as there were a couple of posts quite similar and I should of posted elsewhere most likey, If you feel my post was inappropriate please remove it.See Ya,
Mike
A
Anonymous
Guest
I don't think Douglas is looking for turbo combos.... but it would sure be nice if he would let us know if that were the case or not.
I know I am close to 300 to run a 103 mph 1/4.
Where did this 300 number come from?? IMHO, a 175 HP 200 is a pretty hot 200. Even Mustang Geezer's is a bit farther above most common builds.
The reason I didn't jump in and start offering combos is we HONESTLY don't know what the goals/intentions are.
How far do you want to push it, and on what budget? Without that we are just shooting in the dark.
I know I am close to 300 to run a 103 mph 1/4.
Where did this 300 number come from?? IMHO, a 175 HP 200 is a pretty hot 200. Even Mustang Geezer's is a bit farther above most common builds.
The reason I didn't jump in and start offering combos is we HONESTLY don't know what the goals/intentions are.
How far do you want to push it, and on what budget? Without that we are just shooting in the dark.
Check out the topic in Gasoline Alley, "tell Car Craft to keep the six".
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31498
gtm1086 sent Douglas an e-mail, and this was his response:
It was the catalist to this discussion and what prompted Douglas to register and post his questions on the matter.
Mike I don't want to come across as negative. I was looking forward to a six buildup.
300HP = 1.5 hp per CU IN
This can't be done within a reasonable budget. If it is accomplished the driveability would be questionable. I don't feel it could be done without your new head. I welcome the chance to explore this area when the new head is ready 8) Douglas' original post was in the Big Six section, it would be easier to do with a 300. One HP per CU IN is easily obtainable and very drivable.
Lets back up and consider the entire car. The six cyl car should have less weight(total and esp. unsprung) I have never scaled these two cars but I feel the six cyl would possibly have better weight distribution also.
The suspension components on the market are targeted towards the SBF cars but it might be possible to optimize the combo for a six cyl and achieve a better ballance.
When I upgraded the brakes and spindles on our 68 there were not any four lug disk brake options. The added weight of the eight cyl components works against the six cyl cars. Again if these were optimized for a six cyl car the results would be great.
So to sum it up.
Optimize the running gear for a six.
8 IN rear. Four lug spindles with the biggest brakes you can stuff in 17 or 18 in wheels. Keep the unsrpung weight to a minimum.
Spring it for a six with appropriate sway bars.
Build a 200 for max HP while maintaining an acceptable drivability.
Put a T5 in it. No canyon carver would be complete without one.
If the ballance and weight (HP per CU IN) of the six cyl car turns out better than the eight cyl car the results would be the six cyl car would out brake and out corner the eight cyl and would not be totaly disgraced on the straights. Canyons are not about the straights.
This all falls out of the scope of the budget build.
But I do feel the six will hold it's own when optimized. (and pass the SBF while it's in the pits refueling)
300HP = 1.5 hp per CU IN
This can't be done within a reasonable budget. If it is accomplished the driveability would be questionable. I don't feel it could be done without your new head. I welcome the chance to explore this area when the new head is ready 8) Douglas' original post was in the Big Six section, it would be easier to do with a 300. One HP per CU IN is easily obtainable and very drivable. Lets back up and consider the entire car. The six cyl car should have less weight(total and esp. unsprung) I have never scaled these two cars but I feel the six cyl would possibly have better weight distribution also.
The suspension components on the market are targeted towards the SBF cars but it might be possible to optimize the combo for a six cyl and achieve a better ballance.
When I upgraded the brakes and spindles on our 68 there were not any four lug disk brake options. The added weight of the eight cyl components works against the six cyl cars. Again if these were optimized for a six cyl car the results would be great.
So to sum it up.
Optimize the running gear for a six.
8 IN rear. Four lug spindles with the biggest brakes you can stuff in 17 or 18 in wheels. Keep the unsrpung weight to a minimum.
Spring it for a six with appropriate sway bars.
Build a 200 for max HP while maintaining an acceptable drivability.
Put a T5 in it. No canyon carver would be complete without one.
If the ballance and weight (HP per CU IN) of the six cyl car turns out better than the eight cyl car the results would be the six cyl car would out brake and out corner the eight cyl and would not be totaly disgraced on the straights. Canyons are not about the straights.
This all falls out of the scope of the budget build.
But I do feel the six will hold it's own when optimized. (and pass the SBF while it's in the pits refueling) 8)
Coming from Ford 2.3L turbo experience I think a turbo 200 could hit 300hp.
If I recall correctly the 86 Mustang SVO was stock with 205hp and 247ft lbs of torque. That seems to be about 1.75 hp per cubic inch. The 2.3L OHC also has a head with a reputation for poor flowrates.
According to some of the more knowledgable people on Stangnet 2.3L forums they have had few problems hitting 300+hp albeit with 21-25 lbs boost, fuel injection, and LA3 computers.
I feel that the really hard and expensive part needed for a turbo build would be getting forged pistons. Stock rebuild with ARP bolts and quality bearings, a roller timing chain and a turbo cam, and since we dont have a turbo manifold yet go with the Ak Miller style J-pipe with big 3" downpipe and exhaust. Turbos are common enough now that I can find them in the yards fairly cheap and of course quality will vary.
Also by running a blow thorugh carb setup a intercooler could be used. I know the 2.3L crowd is hot on a certain Volvo intercooler which can usually be had for around $100 on Ebay, some guys have gotten them from pick and pull yards for $25-$35.
Since it would require a stand alone fuel injection system then I would try for a blow through carb setup with the carb built by a professional with knowledge on blow through carbs. With Car Crafts resources they could probably do a Megasquirt system if they wanted to do fuel injection and use a Holley or GM throttle body unit.
Otherwise we need to wait on Mike's aluminum head to get 300hp N/A.
Coming from Ford 2.3L turbo experience I think a turbo 200 could hit 300hp.
If I recall correctly the 86 Mustang SVO was stock with 205hp and 247ft lbs of torque. That seems to be about 1.75 hp per cubic inch. The 2.3L OHC also has a head with a reputation for poor flowrates.
According to some of the more knowledgable people on Stangnet 2.3L forums they have had few problems hitting 300+hp albeit with 21-25 lbs boost, fuel injection, and LA3 computers.
I feel that the really hard and expensive part needed for a turbo build would be getting forged pistons. Stock rebuild with ARP bolts and quality bearings, a roller timing chain and a turbo cam, and since we dont have a turbo manifold yet go with the Ak Miller style J-pipe with big 3" downpipe and exhaust. Turbos are common enough now that I can find them in the yards fairly cheap and of course quality will vary.
Also by running a blow thorugh carb setup a intercooler could be used. I know the 2.3L crowd is hot on a certain Volvo intercooler which can usually be had for around $100 on Ebay, some guys have gotten them from pick and pull yards for $25-$35.
Since it would require a stand alone fuel injection system then I would try for a blow through carb setup with the carb built by a professional with knowledge on blow through carbs. With Car Crafts resources they could probably do a Megasquirt system if they wanted to do fuel injection and use a Holley or GM throttle body unit.
Otherwise we need to wait on Mike's aluminum head to get 300hp N/A.
A
Anonymous
Guest
My build makes a really good canyon runner.
I would like to have an 8" rear, but with the suspension mods I've made so far it really holds the road. I need to upgrade the brakes, stock 6 brakes even with all new components won't cut it.
Cost to build the engine
875 machine work
-deck the block
-bored .030 over
-crank journal aligned
-crank turned
-head milled .010
-chambers polished to achieve 53cc on all 6
-intake ground level for direct mount
-intake brazed to add metal for mount
-shot peened rods
-balanced lower end
-turned flywheel
-put the engine together and broke in the cam N/A
600 internal engine parts
-forged pistons
-bearings
-arp rod bolts and head studs
-264/274 110 cam, lifters push rods
-new timing set
600 head
Bought Mraley's head
milled it just enough to relevel
repolished chambers to acheive even chamber size
porting job was already top notch
500 induction
350 cfm holley 2 barrel carb built for circle tracking
holley electric fuel pump
used eaton M-90 supercharger, mounts, intercooler, piping, car hat
fuel and boost guage
msd boost control
250 ignition
msd 6al
msd blaster coil
accell wires
new duraspark distributor
blue point cap, spacer
750 exhaust
clifford dual out header
2" true duals with x-pipe
Walker Dyno Max turbo mufflers
Right at 3600 bucks. It dyno'ed at just over 200 RWHP, and almost 350
ft lbs of torque
I have another 2500 in suspension, brakes, and T-5 install. I need to upgrade brakes probably another 1000 since my Lincoln Versailes deal fell through, and I still need to find a better rear.
With the 3600 intial investment, and 4000 dollars in body, paint, interior and stereo.
That looks like I have about a 15,000.00 investment in a T code coupe with a 6 cylinder engine. I should be shot. Don't let my wife hear about this.
AzCoupe, I told you I didn't want to add it up.
Bob
I would like to have an 8" rear, but with the suspension mods I've made so far it really holds the road. I need to upgrade the brakes, stock 6 brakes even with all new components won't cut it.
Cost to build the engine
875 machine work
-deck the block
-bored .030 over
-crank journal aligned
-crank turned
-head milled .010
-chambers polished to achieve 53cc on all 6
-intake ground level for direct mount
-intake brazed to add metal for mount
-shot peened rods
-balanced lower end
-turned flywheel
-put the engine together and broke in the cam N/A
600 internal engine parts
-forged pistons
-bearings
-arp rod bolts and head studs
-264/274 110 cam, lifters push rods
-new timing set
600 head
Bought Mraley's head
milled it just enough to relevel
repolished chambers to acheive even chamber size
porting job was already top notch
500 induction
350 cfm holley 2 barrel carb built for circle tracking
holley electric fuel pump
used eaton M-90 supercharger, mounts, intercooler, piping, car hat
fuel and boost guage
msd boost control
250 ignition
msd 6al
msd blaster coil
accell wires
new duraspark distributor
blue point cap, spacer
750 exhaust
clifford dual out header
2" true duals with x-pipe
Walker Dyno Max turbo mufflers
Right at 3600 bucks. It dyno'ed at just over 200 RWHP, and almost 350
ft lbs of torque
I have another 2500 in suspension, brakes, and T-5 install. I need to upgrade brakes probably another 1000 since my Lincoln Versailes deal fell through, and I still need to find a better rear.
With the 3600 intial investment, and 4000 dollars in body, paint, interior and stereo.
That looks like I have about a 15,000.00 investment in a T code coupe with a 6 cylinder engine. I should be shot. Don't let my wife hear about this.
AzCoupe, I told you I didn't want to add it up.
Bob
A
Anonymous
Guest
Anlushac11":35r9fq9u said:
1) Piece o' cake.
2) I got two sets!
3) not good for anything over 2.3 and 10 psi max.
A
Anonymous
Guest
By the sounds of it, it will cost about 3,500 to make 200-250 RWHP. I need to weigh that against a crate engine that will make 345hp (at the crank) without any modifications. I realize that you guys have some cool and likely fun six-cylinder cars but I have to wonder what the reaction will be if I spend that money and go 14s. I routinely get cooked if the cars and engines we build are not super fast for no dollars. The AMC build was a good example of that: It was a 360-based 500hp racing engine for around 7,000 carb-to-pan yet the AMC guys were angry. That is what I am up against. I am thinking that I should get this car to handle using the best parts then worry about the engine later or modify it slowly with bolt-ons until the practical limit is achieved. All of the opinions expressed are valuable to us.
douglas
douglas
Douglas,
I would like to thank you for being a gentleman about the whole thing. Your information is as useful as the contributions from our side since it is the REAL reality of your situation.
Almost all of the cars here have a very high 'fiddle factor'. That is the allure of the I6: nobody else has one quite like it yours and you did it yourself, usually with stuff laying around the garage. That is a very hard niche to sell to parts manufacturers.
Most of the guys here do their own milling or do one-piece-at-a-time bolt ons for improved performance. A few have a complete plan before build-up. You shold check on Harry in Holland (no joke) who makes his own aftermarket performance parts, including billet suspension pieces and metric/inch interfaces for European speed products.
There are others as well who get real down an dirty with the HiPo/low dough idea.
We're kinda like the genie in the bottle who was angry at the fisherman for not rubbing the lamp sooner.
Added later: if you want a big bump for relatively little money, show the head swap from the 200 head to the 250 and other bolt ons like the DSII.
I would like to thank you for being a gentleman about the whole thing. Your information is as useful as the contributions from our side since it is the REAL reality of your situation.
Almost all of the cars here have a very high 'fiddle factor'. That is the allure of the I6: nobody else has one quite like it yours and you did it yourself, usually with stuff laying around the garage. That is a very hard niche to sell to parts manufacturers.
Most of the guys here do their own milling or do one-piece-at-a-time bolt ons for improved performance. A few have a complete plan before build-up. You shold check on Harry in Holland (no joke) who makes his own aftermarket performance parts, including billet suspension pieces and metric/inch interfaces for European speed products.
There are others as well who get real down an dirty with the HiPo/low dough idea.
We're kinda like the genie in the bottle who was angry at the fisherman for not rubbing the lamp sooner.
Added later: if you want a big bump for relatively little money, show the head swap from the 200 head to the 250 and other bolt ons like the DSII.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I think the biggest hurdle is lack of aftermarket support.....I don't mean a lack of headers and cams and carb adapters, but these engines can't be taken very far as "bolt ons only" is concerned (not even to 1 HP per cube).
At some point, you will have to have something taken to a machine shop or have something custom welded or ported.
Hmmmmm......someone add this up:
1) Good basic engine - - honed with rings and bearings, gaskets and
seals. Keep same pistons. Stock main bolts, stock head bolts.
(very typical "magazine" junkyard rebuild)
2) FSPP cam and lifters, stock rockers and shaft
stock style timing chain and oil pump
3) home porting job, reground stock valves, 4.0 liter springs/retainers
4) clifford carb adapter, eBay Holley 350 or Autolite 2100
5) headers with port divider
6) Home-recurved Duraspark II
What does that add up to??? Less than $1000??
OPTIONS:
Direct mount Holley (needs machining @ ?$ )
Threee sigle carbs ( ? $ )
Obviously forged pistons are not needed if Will & Kelly and myself run a LOT of boost on cast pistons.
At some point, you will have to have something taken to a machine shop or have something custom welded or ported.
Hmmmmm......someone add this up:
1) Good basic engine - - honed with rings and bearings, gaskets and
seals. Keep same pistons. Stock main bolts, stock head bolts.
(very typical "magazine" junkyard rebuild)
2) FSPP cam and lifters, stock rockers and shaft
stock style timing chain and oil pump
3) home porting job, reground stock valves, 4.0 liter springs/retainers
4) clifford carb adapter, eBay Holley 350 or Autolite 2100
5) headers with port divider
6) Home-recurved Duraspark II
What does that add up to??? Less than $1000??
OPTIONS:
Direct mount Holley (needs machining @ ?$ )
Threee sigle carbs ( ? $ )
Obviously forged pistons are not needed if Will & Kelly and myself run a LOT of boost on cast pistons.
douglas":187hi6a5 said:
Douglas, thanks for keeping an open mind about us! If its handling you want, I think there are some basic bolt-ons that you can do relatively inexpensively. I did a complete front suspension rebuild with polygraphite bushings from PST ($550)and tossed in a 1 1/8" front and 7/8" rear sway bars ($250 for both). My 37 year old Falcon will already outhandle my wife's '05 Cavalier.
You can also add a Monte Carlo bar, export brace, belly pan bar, and subframe connectors. Lower it with some blocks on the leafs and cut 1 to 1.5 coils out of the front to drop the center of gravity. If you want to handle, you'll want to improve the brakes. I used Stainless Steel Brake Corp's disc brake conversion up front, but you can also go with the Grenada junkyard-swap. Large number of options for rear discs as well; SSBC has a kit (I'd need to swap out my 4 lug axles first or just swap the whole rearend with a 5-lug), I've read you can also swap in the Versaille's or bolt up the Explorer's discs. (If I'm incorrect, please somebody correct me on the last two!) And while you're at it, get yourself a power master cylinder if you want. (I'm running manual brakes still.)
Just my $.02 worth.
douglas":319yow1u said:
i know the type of reader that car craft has, and i also realize that they are rather fanatical(sounds like us six cylinder guys
) about their cars, and are unrealistic about just how fast a car can go with 500hp. i noticed in linc200's sig that his six cylinder car runs mid 13's with the stock(relatively) head. it seems to me that when mike's new aluminum head hit the market, and if one get put on lincs car, i think that will push the car into the 12's, and that will make an impressive run in anybody's car, let alone a six.regarding handling, keeping the six will pay dividends there also as the six is about 100lbs lighter than a similar car with the V8, and about 80lbs of that weight loss is over the front wheels. i would be willing to bet that you could make a six powered car handle better than a V8 car, and still maintain a better ride quality as well.
just think, a six cylinder engine making similar power to linc's, with handling like a shelby, and a ride similar to a stock mustang. if that doesnt get your readers attention, then i think some of them will need their heads examined
douglas, i think you are doing a fine job. i hope you can see your way clear to build a healthy six powered car.
Similar threads
