Collapsed Lifters...

[Anonymous]

Upon my return home from Hot August Nights last summer, a couple lifters were singing pretty good. The next day, I pulled the valve cover off and saw there were a couple pushrods that were loose. My machist thought I ate the camshaft lobes but I finally got around to pulling the head off last night :roll: and the cam seems fine. There are no score marks on the cam or the bottom of the lifters, therefore I am assuming I have a couple bad lifters. The motor was completely rebuilt the summer of 03 and has approx 7000 miles on it. The cam is a COMP 260H however I used stock TRW lifters when I did the rebuild because they were free. I also converted to the adjustable rocker assy at that time. My machist said the lifters would work just fine.

I don't want to go thru this again, so what is a good brand of lifter to get? Should I get the Comp lifters that are made for the CAM? Other than soaking them in oil, do I need to do any breaking in stuff to the cam when replacing just the lifters?

 

[JackFish]

How loose is loose? Since you have adjustable rockers you can adjust the lash.
How do you know they are collapsed?
When they rebuilt the motor did they replace a steel gasket with a composite? And mill the head? If not, then you might have needed longer pushrods.

 

[Anonymous]

I take it you didn't try adjusting the rockers? I would try that first since you have the adjustable rockers. Go over the entire rocker assemby with a torque wrench checking arm bolts etc. Then warm it up some and adjust the lash. Could be a little wear in has caused some clearance issues and any lash that developed can be adjusted out. unlock the adjuster nut,Turn the adjuster till the pushrod won't turn, add another 1/4 turn, then lock it down--you may get lucky.

 

[Anonymous]

I assume the lifters collapsed because there was about an 1/8th to 3/16 inch of play on two valves (quite a bit) and no aparent damage to the cam. Plus there would be a hell of a lot of metal in the oil had I lost the cam lobes. One was on cyl 4 the other was on cyl 5 but I do not remember if they were intake or exhaust. There was not enough adjustment on the rockers to take the slop out. Anyway, I never liked the way they adjusted when I put the motor together because these two valves had to be adjusted tighter (based on the height of the adjuster) than the rest to keep the pushrod from twisting.

This is the second rebuild on the motor. The first rebuild lasted 40K till the thrust bearing failed on the crank. The head was decked on both rebuilds but I am not sure how much was taken off. I used felpro head gaskets on both rebuilds and will probably use it again when I put it together even though I have some steel gaskets.

 

[67 Falcon]

In the March Car Craft page 62 Zinc Me might be your problem. The Zinc has been reduced in oil affecting older engines with fiat tappet cams.

 

[Mustangaroo]

Tigger,
My son has had collapsed lifters more than once in the last few years with his 200 six, it seams we are told that there are only a few companies making these lifters and there in CHINA! Best advise is to adjust the l rockers and then run the engine a few minutes and see if they pump up, and stay pumped, if they don't pump up replace the bad ones! I' putting a new cam in this weekend and am installing new lifters aqnd hoping I don't have the same problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Mustangaroo, what cam and lifters are you installing. Which brands have you had troubles with?

 

[Anonymous]

Tigger,
it seams we are told that there are only a few companies making these lifters and there in CHINA!

True.

Melling and TRW are really the only companies around anymore that make lifters (for EVERYBODY) .

They come from various countries....Brazil, Canada, Mexico, China, etc.

 

[Mustangaroo]

Linc's 200
They come from various countries....Brazil, Canada, Mexico, China, etc.

My point being that the quality control is not what it used to be! I've given up finding a brand that won't go bad I buy them expecting one or more to go bad, and I just keep watch for a lifter going bad. Then when we hear something wrong, we adjust the rockers to make sure they have not backed out and then if we still have slop on the rod we replace the bad lifter!
We first had this problem when we ordered a new CAM from a major maker of cam's and got their lifters at the same time, well the Mustang didn't make it out of the garage as we had two bad lifters, mailed them back and they send two more new lifters, installed them only to find one of these two were bad waited for them to send another! Got it running all lifters working and about six months later another bad lifter, after our experience with waiting for mail to get a new lifter we just went to the parts house and said hand me a new one "the parts guy asked what brand" and we say "Whatever!" There really not hard to replace, it's just that the quality is not what it was, and they are having a few more go bad than was common before.

 

[addo]

The tightwads here linish old ones. I wonder if that will come back into fashion?

Sounds as though it's not a surface treatment issue with the newbies, but a defective alloy they're using.

 

[80broncoman]

In the March Car Craft page 62 Zinc Me might be your problem. The Zinc has been reduced in oil affecting older engines with fiat tappet cams.

What the magizine won't tell you about is that Diesel oil stiil has a lot of Zinc in it. I learned about the Zinc removal in 1996. I said this in another thread a while back:

I run 15w-40 mil-spec and diesel oil because of anti wear additives. Since 96 all 5-30,10-30,10-40 and 20-50 weights for gasoline oils have had a anti wear additive taken out so caytlict converters last till about 150k insted of 70k. I cant remember the name of the ingredent but I remember it went from about 1.5% to about .3%. This is why there are no longer 10-30 oils approved for 6.9 and 7.3 diesels. They had cc or cc/cd ratings on the bottle.
I noticed in owners manual for my Fathers f-150 it stated to use 5w-30 for all engines EXCEPT 300I6.

I had not heard about lifters being made in china.

 

[AzCoupe]

Just a note on manufacturers. I found out that there are only two manufacturers that produce the bulk of the lifters found in the USA. One is in the US, the other in Mexico. If you buy aftermarket lifters from a parts supplier, more than likely you'll get one or the other. However, several cam manufacturers have lifters produced to their own specs which are more stringent. I know that Isky and Clay Smith are two that do. I'm not sure about the others, but would imagine Crane and Comps both do so as well. Hence, you would be better off going with a lifter offered by a cam manufacturer.

On a side note: I just started stocking 289 and 302 springs, but haven't had a chance to add them to the website yet.

 

[Mustangaroo]

The company we got the cam and lifters from was Isky I'm not saying don't buy them I'm just saying don't be suprised if you have problems with anyone's lifters made today!

 

[addo]

Unless it's changed without anyone speaking up, "Made" tends to mean "last major place of transformation" for retail products.

This could mean a Chinese or Indian lifter casting, final machined/assembled in the US or Mexico.

It's ironic that piston/ring technology has swung our way, but a basic part like lifters or cam, has gone the other...

 

[Mustangaroo]

ADDO your right! But really it's no big deal many things we use to expect to last do not now last as expected! Just be ready and able to diagnose the problem and correct it with a new part!

 

[addo]

Counterpoint it with medical technology. They make US live longer. They make our CARS break more often. Can't someone even it up a little?

 

[Anonymous]

I run 15w-40 mil-spec and diesel oil because of anti wear additives.

+1

The turbo 200 gets Shell Rotella T 15W-40 for the whole crankcase.

Even if I run 5W-30 or 10W-30 in my other vehicles, there will still be 1 quart of Rotella added in the mix.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input guys. I have a Comp Cam so I will most likely go down tomorrow and order some comp lifters. I know it is real easy to change the lifters but it is a pain for me as the engine was perfectly detailed. I just want to enjoy the car and not have to do a major tear down every couple years.

One last question, do I need to do anything to the Cam when I install all new lifters?

 

[Anonymous]

One last question, do I need to do anything to the Cam when I install all new lifters?

Just make sure you put some moly lube on the lifter faces and have clean oil in it.

 

[Anonymous]

So I finally got some time to work on my car. I have had the lifters for a couple months now soaking in oil. Last weekend I cleaned the gasket surfaces and installed the lifters with cam lube on the lifter faces. Tonight I torqued the head, exhaust, etc. I installed the rocker arm assy and tried to adjust the valves but they would not adjust this time. They did with the last set of lifters but not this set. Also I noticed that my rocker arms are worn around the shaft. The bushings are quite worn on about half of the rockers arms which cause them to wobble. Not sure if they were like this when I bought them. Needless to say, I don't understand why these lifters will not adjust like the last set. I will call my machinest tomorrow and order a new rocker shaft and probably some longer pushrods.