cost

rmousir

Well-known member
Hi All,
I have a question and I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way. I love the idea of my six with some get up and go but like everyone else here HP has a lot to do with cash. Would it not be cheaper to just drop a v8 in my car rather than working with the six. Keep in mind I plan on doing the front suspension with v8 springs and disk brakes, so the other obsticle would be the rear end. Even with a mild engine rebuild and the package from OZ (around $1100 I think). that puts the total around $1600 (estimating about $500 +- for the rebuild). Now a v8 (302) rebuild with some extras for around $500 to $800 and a rebuilt rear for another $200. That is a considerable difference of $500. A lot of money in my world. My question is have I over looked something to add or drop the cost? I believe there will be a advantage right a way when it comes to power. I am just not sure that I want a big heavy eight in my car, but my wallet may make the decisioin. I would really like some suggestions on this. I don't need big power, just enough that I don't feel like a grandpa. Any pros or cons, even critizims are wanted here. Again, I don't want offend anyone just looking for some direction. Thanks.
 
Well, if that was all you had to do, that would surely be the way to go however, there are a "few" other things you would have to think about...
(the following is an itemized list of all the things you will have to change, broken down into 5 catagories: Front suspension, rear suspension, drive train, transmission, etc.)

FRONT SUSPENSION:

1. Drag (center) link. If changing to V8 with p/s from I6 with p/s, the drag link may be the same but I'm not sure. The power ram and pump are the same. For non-p/s, the I6/V8 drag links are different.

2. Inner tie rods (LH and RH are the same for manual steering but LH different for p/s).

3. Tie rod adjusters LH, RH (LH and RH are the same for manual steering but LH different for p/s) Note: For 6 cylinders with p/s, if you plan to retain p/s with your V8, these adjusters are the same, just don't interchange LH with RH.

4. Outer tie rods LH, RH (LH and RH are the same for manual steering but LH different for p/s).

5. Idler arm

6. Pitman Arm - Note: Steering boxes are the same whether I6 or V8 however, p/s equipped cars from the factory had higher ratio (lower numerically) steering boxes. The P/S boxes are typically designated with HCC-AW while manual boxes are HCC-AT. If you have HCC-AX it would be an oddity, since the handling suspension steering box was only available on V8 Mustangs.

7. Spindle LH, RH

8. Two front Hub and brake assemblies including hoses (Stainless Steel Brake Corp offers original Kelsey-Hayes 4-piston front disc brake set up using the same spindles the V8 drum brakes use).


9. Pair of front coil springs

REAR SUSPENSION:

10. Pair of leaf springs.

11. Rear differential assembly ('65-'66 'Stang 8" diff. is only one I know will exactly fit but a '57-'59 9" will fit, '77-'80 Lincoln Versailles/Merc Monarch/Ford Granada (LMF) bolts in but a bit wide axle to axle face).

12. Rear brake lines and hose that are attached to the rear differential assembly.

13. Emergency brake cable. Note '65s and '66s are different. The '66s use a single cable to both rear brakes while the '65s have two separate cables. Choose wisely.

14. Pair of 10"x 1-3/4" (coupe or fastback for sure not sure with Convertibles) rear drum brake assembly (your on your own if you have a 9", LMF have rear disc but parts are obsolete).

DRIVE TRAIN:


15. Engine (duh!) Don’t forget the ground wire that goes from the passenger side cylinder head to the firewall.

16. Radiator. If your V8 has a driver side output water pump you can bolt on a passenger side exit pump (late '65 - '66). Note: '64.5 and early '65s used a slightly different style that won't work on late '65 on up timing covers. Then you will have to hassle with getting all the accessory pulleys to line up. An alternative is get a radiator shop to mod your radiator to accept the driver side outlet water pump. Don't forget, if you have an automatic transmission, make sure the radiator has the ports for the trans fluid lines. I think the '65s trans line thread directly into the radiator cooling tube while the '66s used the rubber hose connection between radiator ports and trans fluid cooling lines.

17. Upper and lower radiator hose.

18. '66 motor mounts LH, RH (if your 'Stang's a '65, use the '66 motor mounts, '65 stuff is harder to get and the motor mounts have an extra bracket which is a bear to find).

19. '66 motor mount to frame bracket LH, RH (these are being reproduced and any friendly neighborhood Mustang parts place will have 'em. National Parts Depot has 'em fer sure).

20. You can reuse the alternator but you will need to get the correct alternator brackets to mount it (depending on other engine accessories). Most folks seem to get the engine fully dressed so already have the alternator, water pump, pulleys, and fan parts. Depending on whether you're installing a/c or p/s you will have to find appropriate pulleys that line up. Note that 289s and 302's made '69 and before had a three bolt crank pulley while 302s after '69 had 4 bolts.

21. '65 or '66 Fan and fan spacer if your engine didn't come with them. Beware, later fans and fan spacers or clutch fans vary in length and diameter.

22. Starter - match to transmission type


23. Exhaust manifolds (or headers), exhaust pipe, muffler(s) and tail pipe(s)+ hangers.

TRANSMISSION

24. If autotrans, you can use the 6 cylinder's C4 (unless your V8 is modified for more power) but you must change the block plate and bell housing for one that will bolt to a V8. Note: Very early '65 260-289s used 5 bolt bell housings and the '65 and later engines were 6 bolt. You will also need the V8 flexplate and torque converter. Warning: After '81 all 302s used 50 oz imbalance on their flexplate/flywheel and the harmonic balancer is different from the pre ’81 harmonic balancer. Also, '70 and later C4s had larger input shafts so match the torque converter to the trans. Don't forget the trans cooling lines, kick down linkage if '65 or kick down cable if '66. One last thing, if you're changing to an C4, make sure it's one from a car that had a floor shift selector and not one on the column. The shift lever on the trans (and I think the internal rod) are different. Don’t forget the Auto trans torque converter access plate.

If manual get a V8 3 speed or better yet a 4 spd toploader. You will need the engine block plate, clutch bell housing, flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, dust boot, clutch fork to fulcrum retainer, and clutch fork. Mechanical clutch linkage includes clutch pedal to equalizer bar (Z-bar) push rod, Z-bar, clutch pivot - engine side, clutch pivot - frame side, 2 felt washers, two clutch pivot balls, clutch return spring, clutch rod from Z-bar to clutch fork. Or you could chose clutch cable conversion. See Vintage-Mustang.com (www.Vintage-Mustang.com) and search their forum regarding clutch cable conversion. See above auto trans info regarding 5 bolt vs 6 bolt engine blocks and correct flywheel imbalance.

25. Regardless of trans choice, you will need the appropriate trans yoke, U joints and drive shaft.

26. Set of tires (if converting a '65) and a set of five lug rims (don't forget the spare - Doh!). Grab 4 extra lug nuts, too.

ANNOYING STUFF:

27. Engine wiring harness. This harness includes the oil and temp sending unit wiring plus the wires that go to the coil.

28. Alternator wiring harness

29. Starter cable from solenoid. The 6 cyl’s negative battery cable may be a bit long but may be useable on a V8 – critical part is the terminal lug that is bolted to the block. 6 cylinder’s may have a smaller bolt hole.

30. Accelerator pedal linkage assembly. Suggest using the ’66 style with the extra arm on it for the kick down cable if you have an auto trans. The '65 accelerator pedal assembly was the same irregardless of manual or automatic transmission. The '66 manual transmission cars had the same accelerator pedal assy as the '65's. Only the auto equipped '66's had the extra arm on the Accelerator pedal assy for the kick down cable. The V8 throttle rod (The link between carb throttle shaft and the accelerator pedal assy) is different than the I6 bell crank linkages.


31. That little arm on the autotrans that accepts the kickdown cable ('66 and up) or the kickdown linkage ('65 only)

32. Fuel line. Yup the entire hard line. You're going to get vapor lock if you use the 6 cylinder's.

33. If you have p/s, Hose, p/s pump to control valve and Hose, p/s pressure, control valve to pump . Match to type of p/s pump you have.

34. 14" wheel covers (if you have a '65 and using stock V8 rims)

35. Two (2) "289" badges for your fenders. Hey, if you went through all that trouble to drop in a V8 you might as well advertise it. If you dropped in a 302 or 351 you'll have to make your own badges.


Any questions!
 
wow. anyone know of some other inexpensive performance tips for the 200I6???? I think I will buy the Falcon book this week. LOL. :D :D :D
 
And after all that your car will still be worth less then a "real" V8 car and maybe less then if you had left it a 6! :x :shock:
 
If you want a V8 then sell your mustang and get a mustang with the V8 in it already. That is the cheapest way to go.


Bill
 
As I keep saying, keep the six because it's becoming a rare item everyday. Have you ever been to a car show and saw an old mustang with an inline six. Hardly. I know I haven't. Every where you look, no matter car show, magazine, on the street....etc..... most mustangs have V8s. The cars that I enjoy to see is those that are unique, have style and design, or those who chose to see that the rarity that they have is priceless. An inline six mustang is hard to believe for most people, even at parts stores ( I was laughed at once). But when I comes to showtime and those people see the hard work and the ability of this inline six, then you're not one of those average mustangers, you're the guy who took the chance of showing those people off that the inline six is powerful and is worth every penny of your hard work


Andrew
 
:D DAMN RIGHT :D !!!! Barishiman, you brought a tear to my eyes!
 
I'm telling you! If that speech doesn't get you going you're in the wrong place! ENCORE!
But seriously, that is exactly how I feel. I love the different ones, the sixes are unique. And you you see 302 or 289's are a dime a dozen, plus everyone knows what you can do to one of those (mods) but on sixes, everyone has tricks, the funnest thing to do is look to see what others have done to fix up theirs!
Wasn't trying to scare you RMOUSIR, if no one can convince you to keep the six, and you still have to have the eight. The only way to have a chance at not braking the bank is to sell the mustang you have now and buy one with an eight already in it. The swap (as previously shown! lol) will kill you.
As for ideas... Just say the words and these guys will FLOOD you with great ideas for fixing up your six. Check out my sight (and all the links at the bottom of the page) for some thoughts on upgrades and mods, let me know if you have any questions.

www.geocities.com/levidodd7/65stang
 
Thanks for the imput folks. It was enough to convince me to keep the six. I just needed to see if it was easier to go the other route with what I have. I think I will continue with collecting ideas from all of you. I think I may order the facon book that is on this site today. Thank agian for your imput everyone, I will be calling on you all for your wisdom again soon.
 
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