All Small Six Cylinder walls question

This relates to all small sixes
Instead of just milling everthing off the head to get to a 10.0 to 1 CR, you should consider milling the blocks deck surface enough so that you get your quench distance back into the sweet spot of .035 to .050 you will get much better reasults. The Replacement pistons will be at .030 down the hole or more plus a new style composition head gasket of .050 will put the quench distance at .080 or more, the stock 1963 1/2 to 1968 200 six'es were at a .041 quench distance. Best of luck
 
Instead of just milling everthing off the head to get to a 10.0 to 1 CR, you should consider milling the blocks deck surface enough so that you get your quench distance back into the sweet spot of .035 to .050 you will get much better reasults. The Replacement pistons will be at .030 down the hole or more plus a new style composition head gasket will put the quench distance at .080 or more, the stock 1963 1/2 to 1968 200 six'es were at a .041 quench distance. Best of luck
Yes...I have considered that since nothing has ever been milled...neither top or bottom. I have plenty on the bottom end since the tdc on all the pistons gives me around .030 or better. I think most 200ci guys here mill their decks flush to tdc on the pistons and from what I've read on this forum you can actually have the pistons stick above the deck. 030...
 
if .010 is all you need then .030 wont make better compression or make it last longer it's just a tiny bit more displacement. if you go 10 or 20 then you can still go up if there is a .030 provided those are the normal factory type sizes..

others here will know a lot more about your piston options. I think you want to give the pistons you are using to the engine shop so they can cheack the ring gap in the actual bore, rather than trying to make the piston rings fit the hole or relying on the spec.

careful when you put the rings on. I broke one before and it cost me a new set of rings. Its probably better to use a proper piston ring compressor than a hoseclamp.

some theory I was told was that if you are not replacing the rings, don't decarbon the edge of the bore because it doesn't run there and it wont help and it could possibly cause some loss of compression if anything. If you do put new rings then remove that ridge or it will break the top ring when it hits that ridge.

my backyard take on it is you can increase compression ratio by planing the head and you can lighten the flywheel. If you spin it up a lot and it has a heavy flywheel then it takes longer to slow and get into the next gear. I think Id rather gain displacement by using larger pistons and not push the compression ratio so it can run cheap gas because the gas may not get better. I kept my heavy flywheel and it does take time to spin down and it affects the throttle snap.

I have a personal throry that you can use that momentum to your advantage if you gear down into a corner and spin the gyro up and then coming out of a corner drop the clutch and get a burst but Im not a racer or trained in those sort of driving skills. It might just come of as a nutty comment to someone who was.

I dont reallly care that the flywheel is heavy because I may run flat out but Im not trying to race or change gears quickly. I had some issues where my car had a lot of wear all through the drivetrain and it all adds together , the result is you are trying to just go down the road at a slow speed with traffic and it is sort of clinking bestrewn a state of acceleration and deceleration and that's uncomfortable. you know when you jack up one wheel and try turning it one way and the other and that way you can sense all the stackup of all that play in every U joint , the rear axle, axle shafts etc and it adds up to more lash in an old car. when the car is tight and new it shoudl be less but in an old worn car this can add to an uncomfortable feeling.. I changed my crown and pinion and set it up better and found my car was a lot more comfortable to use.

if thins sort of comfortable driving is important then maybe running higher ratios decreases street driving comfort and my take is that if you can get the power through displacement and things like larger valves then maybe that's a trade off.. It might depend if you want as much power as you can get and consider driveability as secondary or if you see yourself driving a neat and hot car but often in traffic.. some of the options may affect the comfort and driveabilty and I wouldnt completely ignore that.. others may have different opinions.

a racer may care less about that driveability factor and comfort but you will surely be driving slowly with traffic even with the mods you are doing.

I run chevron high octane all the time in all my cars. Thats the highest we can get at the station. Is it like wearing shoes that are too big or does it make a difference? I can't really tell.. I dont hear any pinging.. I try to add add a bit of fuel stabilizer if I park it for winter, but sometimes I just switch cars unexpectedly since I drive beaters.. , fix the issues in summer and switch cars when I run into trouble to prevent having to work on them outside in the rain too much.
I have heard that the higher octane non alcohol gas stores better than the gasohol does.
 
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if .010 is all you need then .030 wont make better compression or make it last longer it's just a tiny bit more displacement. if you go 10 or 20 then you can still go up if there is a .030 provided those are the normal factory type sizes..

others here will know a lot more about your piston options. I think you want to give the pistons you are using to the engine shop so they can cheack the ring gap in the actual bore, rather than trying to make the piston rings fit the hole or relying on the spec.

careful when you put the rings on. I broke one before and it cost me a new set of rings. Its probably better to use a proper piston ring compressor than a hoseclamp.

some theory I was told was that if you are not replacing the rings, don't decarbon the edge of the bore because it doesn't run there and it wont help and it could possibly cause some loss of compression if anything. If you do put new rings then remove that ridge or it will break the top ring when it hits that ridge.

my backyard take on it is you can increase compression ratio by planing the head and you can lighten the flywheel. If you spin it up a lot and it has a heavy flywheel then it takes longer to slow and get into the next gear. I think Id rather gain displacement by using larger pistons and not push the compression ratio so it can run cheap gas because the gas may not get better. I kept my heavy flywheel and it does take time to spin down and it affects the throttle snap.

I have a personal throry that you can use that momentum to your advantage if you gear down into a corner and spin the gyro up and then coming out of a corner drop the clutch and get a burst but Im not a racer or trained in those sort of driving skills. It might just come of as a nutty comment to someone who was.

I dont reallly care that the flywheel is heavy because I may run flat out but Im not trying to race or change gears quickly. I had some issues where my car had a lot of wear all through the drivetrain and it all adds together , the result is you are trying to just go down the road at a slow speed with traffic and it is sort of clinking bestrewn a state of acceleration and deceleration and that's uncomfortable. you know when you jack up one wheel and try turning it one way and the other and that way you can sense all the stackup of all that play in every U joint , the rear axle, axle shafts etc and it adds up to more lash in an old car. when the car is tight and new it shoudl be less but in an old worn car this can add to an uncomfortable feeling.. I changed my crown and pinion and set it up better and found my car was a lot more comfortable to use.

if thins sort of comfortable driving is important then maybe running higher ratios decreases street driving comfort and my take is that if you can get the power through displacement and things like larger valves then maybe that's a trade off.. It might depend if you want as much power as you can get and consider driveability as secondary or if you see yourself driving a neat and hot car but often in traffic.. some of the options may affect the comfort and driveabilty and I wouldnt completely ignore that.. others may have different opinions.

a racer may care less about that driveability factor and comfort but you will surely be driving slowly with traffic even with the mods you are doing.

I run chevron high octane all the time in all my cars. Thats the highest we can get at the station. Is it like wearing shoes that are too big or does it make a difference? I can't really tell.. I dont hear any pinging.. I try to add add a bit of fuel stabilizer if I park it for winter, but sometimes I just switch cars unexpectedly since I drive beaters.. , fix the issues in summer and switch cars when I run into trouble to prevent having to work on them outside in the rain too much.
I have heard that the higher octane non alcohol gas stores better than the gasohol does.
I can understand that a sloppy drive train can give you an uncomfortable ride. Im hoping that once the build is over I'll get to the other components. I'd like a stiffer handling ride, unlike the cushy rides from the era. New leafs, front disc brake conversion.
 
Vintage Inlines has the exact cam i want for my build but they're out of stock. I've contacted schneider but they're out too and said call back in a couple of weeks.
Bullet cams may have cam cores and they will grind very close to the Clay Smith cam specs if that is what you want.

Autotec/RaceTec will supply you with a forged flat top piston with the correct compression height so you won't have to machine the block or head deck to get a 10:1 compression ratio.
 
Vintage Inlines has the exact cam i want for my build but they're out of stock. I've contacted schneider but they're out too and said call back in a couple of weeks. Its the only thing holding me back from starting the bottom end. Even with all the new internal parts and DUI distributor along with the headers and the larger intake /exhaust valves....I'm not sure my horsepower will be that significant. It's really hard to just see what I have and put a number to the horsepower I will achieve but I welcome ALL guesses. I initially was hoping to get 200 HP out of the 200ci straight six. Last item will be the Weber 32/36 carb kit with the straight bolt on feature. If I can squeeze even 150 horsepower I'd be happy considering the parts I have weren't really that expensive, minus the DUI of course...I don't think I'll be running it over 5k rpms that often but I would like to keep up with highway traffic.
You will be lucky to get 125HP with that old head.
 
Yes even if you do all those mod's to one of the early 200 small log head's (1963 1/2 to 1968). :cool: it still won't even flow as well as a stock late model large log head (1977 to 1983 200 or 250 witch both are identical). But then if you also did all those upgrade mods your talking about to one of those later model large log head's you would see an addistional significant improvement in power. All this is covered very well in the Ford Falcon Performance Book if you have one if not you should get one. Best of luck

Ford Small Six Log Head Flow Tests
 
Yes even if you do all those mod's to one of the early 200 small log head's (1963 1/2 to 1968) :cool: it won't even flow as well as a stock late model large log head (1977 to 1983 200 or 250 head they are both identical). But then if you also did all those upgrade mods your talking about to one of the later model large log head's you would see an addistional significant improvement in power. All this is covered very well in the Ford Falcon Performance Book if you have one if not you should get one. Best of luck

Ford Small Six Log Head Flow Tests
The article is very speculative with a lot of assumptions. You can put 1.50 & 1.75 intake/exhaust valves in a small log, contrary to what the article is saying, just watch for shrouding. You can take .090 off a head since you have pistons at tdc. Leaving .030 or more on the deck. Dished pistons. And yes, you need lots of air ( cfm) to get an air/fuel mixture to get your horsepower up.
Worse case is I'll have a great engine with not so great horsepower but that's okay. If ever I come across a large log 250 head its a small price to pay for the rebuild and conversion. And as simple as they are to remove. Rebuild and install, its pretty straight forward.
 
This link will get you to some dyno test results.
You could get quite a bit more hp with a modified large log head or the aluminum head.
I do not know if the aluminum head is available? Maybe someone else knows.
Classic inlines are "Out of Stock"....for aluminum heads....probably a year out or more.
If you look up a 1965 ford falcon 200 ci engine horsepower rating it say "120" horsepower.
How does a dyno test show
62-68 horsepower ???
Even an old Volkswagen has that!!
Something definitely looks skewed...
 
The large log heads are still easy enuf to find so its your choice if you want to spend the money on moding your old head or not.

Yes something is skewed but not like you think and that's why you can't really do a direct comparison of the older engines that are tested using the SAE specs for a Gross HP rating (as we're all engines 1971 and older), the newer engines which are tested as a Net HP rating. The differance was all in the way those older engines were tested, their Gross horse power rating was measured at the Flywheel. Back the. They also tested those the engines without any accessory's installed. I.E. That means no Alernator, Water Pump, Air Cleaner, Fan, etc. this could result in from 12 to 18 HP increase, plus they also had an open header type exhaust (no muffler) I don't remember what this added up to but maybe another 15 to 20 HP, it takes some horse power to turn all those accessory's. Though it wouldn't be a direct compareision check HP numbers of a 1965 to 1968 200 to a 1972 200 that would show you a somewhat close differance in the power ratings with and without the accessories and exhaust system parts.

After the Feds got involved in 1972 (and all the engines thereafter) they were required to be tested as they were installed in the vechical with all its factory equipment, accessory's installed, with the exhaust manifold plus a full factory exhaust, they were still measured at the flywheel yet now was for the Net HP rating.

Then when you start comparing either of those two HP ratings with what you would get when the engines run on a chassis Dyno (as in that above test) it's now running through the transmission, drive shaft, and rear axle (another 18 to 25 percent or more loss) that will add up to even less of a horse power reading. Sorry but an old stock Volkswagen wont put anywhere near 62 to 68 horsepower to the ground look up what kind of an ET they ran in the 1/4 mile in an old Road and Track, Motor Trend, Popular Mechanix magazine if any of them they ever tested them. As another example look at what the horsepower rating is on a 1982 Mustang 200 (3.3) six the same basic short block as the 1965 200 but with a much better beathing large log head installed, less compression ratio (not so good), with a better electronic Distributor, Coil, Carb, and more. Best of luck
 
What Clay Smith cam are you looking for specifically? I have an "unused" H-6474-0-B cam that came in a pile of parts I bought from a local seller a while back. I say "unused" because he told me he bought it but changed his mind before he ran it. It does still have the protective coating on the cam lobes, but has the spacer collar and pin installed so he either prepped it or put it in and took it out before running.

https://www.claysmithcams.com/h-647...ge-street-cam-w-2v-carb-ford-144-170-200-250/
 
What Clay Smith cam are you looking for specifically? I have an "unused" H-6474-0-B cam that came in a pile of parts I bought from a local seller a while back. I say "unused" because he told me he bought it but changed his mind before he ran it. It does still have the protective coating on the cam lobes, but has the spacer collar and pin installed so he either prepped it or put it in and took it out before running.

https://www.claysmithcams.com/h-647...ge-street-cam-w-2v-carb-ford-144-170-200-250/
I think that just might work !!
Vi had the 264/274 ( out of stock)
H-64-74 looks to be similar...not sure what the
o-b stands for. If its for sale then I'm interested.
 
I think that just might work !!
Vi had the 264/274 ( out of stock)
H-64-74 looks to be similar...not sure what the
o-b stands for. If its for sale then I'm interested.
Mustang6....are you interested in selling that
cam ?? Let me know...
It's gotta be better than the original i pulled out of my 65- 200ci..
 

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