Data Loggers
- Thread starter 66200i6
- Start date
Don't most, if not all, data loggers for production vehicles plug into the OBDII port and monitor the PCM?
Some of the ones for racecars will support carbureted systems but they are usually integrated into the digital instrument panel and/or the electronic ignition module. I do not know of any standalone units
Some of the ones for racecars will support carbureted systems but they are usually integrated into the digital instrument panel and/or the electronic ignition module. I do not know of any standalone units
Take a look here
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/advca ... oryID=DATA
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/advca ... oryID=DATA
You could purchased a used Megsquirt 2 off eBay and download tuning software for it. A Megasquirt 2 monitors all of the parameters you are looking for and the Megatune software has datalog capabilities.
You wouldn't have to have the Megasquirt 2 ECU hooked up to run your engine, just monitor it.
Just a thought.
You wouldn't have to have the Megasquirt 2 ECU hooked up to run your engine, just monitor it.
Just a thought.
66200i6
Famous Member
Thanks, guys. I take a look at both.
Just reviewed the Omega site last night. Lots of good info. But pricey. If you get up to 4 channels your looking at nearly $1K.
The next trick is how to provide the inputs. Ideally it would be cool to be able to just use the stock transducer or sending units to provide the signal. I'm still looking at different gauges that could also provide and output to the logger.
We'll see, Ric.
Just reviewed the Omega site last night. Lots of good info. But pricey. If you get up to 4 channels your looking at nearly $1K.
The next trick is how to provide the inputs. Ideally it would be cool to be able to just use the stock transducer or sending units to provide the signal. I'm still looking at different gauges that could also provide and output to the logger.
We'll see, Ric.
It's probably not what you asked for, but I think you need to step back and look at pricing the bare minimum system.
There are other options if you study, and a custom "build down to a price for the info you are looking for" system should only cost a few hundred bucks. Remember, your looking for the bare minimum cost to get the bare minimum info.
I'd personally follow the 1960's Chevy Corvair Monza/Olds JetFire Turbo method via Hugh McInnes Turbocharging book. In there, there's a method of VDR, visual data recognition. I use this for some of my Road Warrior Dyno System.
Ie filming via portable camera a vitual dash board using conventional cheap instruments, and do 1/8 th mile (660 ft) data runs at 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000 change up points. HP can then be determined by the idealised 1/8th mile calculations. If you have space and can do so without doing 100 mph at the end of the standing 1320 feet, then that will be even better. I use the Moroso or David Vizard 1/4 mile to HP derivation.
These days, a cell phone or digital camera on video mod will work.
Other options are:For the price of a junked EEC5 from a 1996 on Cash for Scrap Explorer V6, you can hook up Alex Peppers Car Code system for 120 bucks. You basically hook up the 103 pin ODB2 computer, and leave the 60 sensors intact, locked in place so they don't trigger a check engine light code. The EDIS-6 runs your ignition, and the
I've delt with a lot of 8 and 16 bit digital and analogue data systems since 1996. Dollar spent for information, a US 1000 or 2000 dollar Campbell Scientific will do the job.
Once you price out the totals on timing, vacuum, temp fuel ratio it’s comparable to Innovates systems, or buying a trailer and an inverter and running an old Sun engine analyser.
If you get greedy, air fuel, exhaust gas temp, MAP, tps, or 103 other parameters can be resolved from the 60 sensors Ford uses for most OBD2 EEC 5's
The truth is that dedicated, separate digital and analogue systems are cheaper. So electricians separate multi meter and oscilloscope with good sensors and data logging facility will do the job if the sensors are calibrated.
Best system for the buck was the 1986-1996 Cygnus-1 computer system, used to stunning success by Peter and John Sammut from Sammut Performance Products, Melbourne Australia. http://www.prosportengineering.com/cygnus.php.
I'm a civil engineering technican, Peter Sammut is a civil engineer, and his system is one of the best for the money there is.
In 1990, their 182 cubic inch Nissan RB30e powered Holden Torana Turbo did 620 hp with just a couple of turbos (9.2 sec 1/4s at 148 mph), and by 2004, their 182 cid inline RB30E powered 300ZX was doing 7 second quarter miles.http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/archive/i ... 85399.html
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20537
See the following from a 1990 Australian Street Machine Tough 6's magazine
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5226.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5227.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5228.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5229.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5230.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5231.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5234.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5235.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5236.jpg
Today, for noisy environments where electronic ignition or magnetos are used, the DataStar DAS-1 is probably the best, which is the latest version of the earlier system the Sammut Brothers used. See http://www.prosportengineering.com/products.php
Pro Sport Engineering
1090 La Londe Ln.
Napa, CA 94558 Ph 707-226-1556 Fax: 707-226-1433 E-mail: info@prosportengineering.com
There are other options if you study, and a custom "build down to a price for the info you are looking for" system should only cost a few hundred bucks. Remember, your looking for the bare minimum cost to get the bare minimum info.
I'd personally follow the 1960's Chevy Corvair Monza/Olds JetFire Turbo method via Hugh McInnes Turbocharging book. In there, there's a method of VDR, visual data recognition. I use this for some of my Road Warrior Dyno System.
Ie filming via portable camera a vitual dash board using conventional cheap instruments, and do 1/8 th mile (660 ft) data runs at 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000 change up points. HP can then be determined by the idealised 1/8th mile calculations. If you have space and can do so without doing 100 mph at the end of the standing 1320 feet, then that will be even better. I use the Moroso or David Vizard 1/4 mile to HP derivation.
These days, a cell phone or digital camera on video mod will work.
Other options are:For the price of a junked EEC5 from a 1996 on Cash for Scrap Explorer V6, you can hook up Alex Peppers Car Code system for 120 bucks. You basically hook up the 103 pin ODB2 computer, and leave the 60 sensors intact, locked in place so they don't trigger a check engine light code. The EDIS-6 runs your ignition, and the
I've delt with a lot of 8 and 16 bit digital and analogue data systems since 1996. Dollar spent for information, a US 1000 or 2000 dollar Campbell Scientific will do the job.
Once you price out the totals on timing, vacuum, temp fuel ratio it’s comparable to Innovates systems, or buying a trailer and an inverter and running an old Sun engine analyser.
If you get greedy, air fuel, exhaust gas temp, MAP, tps, or 103 other parameters can be resolved from the 60 sensors Ford uses for most OBD2 EEC 5's
The truth is that dedicated, separate digital and analogue systems are cheaper. So electricians separate multi meter and oscilloscope with good sensors and data logging facility will do the job if the sensors are calibrated.
Best system for the buck was the 1986-1996 Cygnus-1 computer system, used to stunning success by Peter and John Sammut from Sammut Performance Products, Melbourne Australia. http://www.prosportengineering.com/cygnus.php.
I'm a civil engineering technican, Peter Sammut is a civil engineer, and his system is one of the best for the money there is.
In 1990, their 182 cubic inch Nissan RB30e powered Holden Torana Turbo did 620 hp with just a couple of turbos (9.2 sec 1/4s at 148 mph), and by 2004, their 182 cid inline RB30E powered 300ZX was doing 7 second quarter miles.http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/archive/i ... 85399.html
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20537
See the following from a 1990 Australian Street Machine Tough 6's magazine
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5226.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5227.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5228.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5229.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5230.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5231.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5234.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5235.jpg
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc5 ... G_5236.jpg
Today, for noisy environments where electronic ignition or magnetos are used, the DataStar DAS-1 is probably the best, which is the latest version of the earlier system the Sammut Brothers used. See http://www.prosportengineering.com/products.php
Pro Sport Engineering
1090 La Londe Ln.
Napa, CA 94558 Ph 707-226-1556 Fax: 707-226-1433 E-mail: info@prosportengineering.com
66200i6
Famous Member
.
I agree the key here is study. There are many options out there. Some of the signal conditioners designed for automotive logging has an internal accelerometer. This is a big plus for purchasing this type of unit. For the number of channels these automotive conditioners/loggers provide the cost is actually a good value. I put a high value on the amount of time it would take to use systems that exist on OEM products, my time is limited. In either case I need to understand how each signal is produced and the conditioning needed to record.
I have tried using my digital camera to view the few instruments I have currently. In fact the lack of good gauges on my Coupe is what started this study. If I'm going to finally upgrade to new technology gauges, I want this info to give me the data to fine tune.
The one last piece of data I would like to record is the change in timing. So far the only “Off the Shelf” product that addresses this is the Mini/Mega Squirt. Their programming and products include a crank trigger pickup that will record the timing during changes in vacuum, RPM ect. There are also available timing control units that change timing electronically. This circuitry may be the way to go which could possibly eliminate the need for a trigger. Don’t know how this works, yet.
Thanks for the input, Ric.
I agree the key here is study. There are many options out there. Some of the signal conditioners designed for automotive logging has an internal accelerometer. This is a big plus for purchasing this type of unit. For the number of channels these automotive conditioners/loggers provide the cost is actually a good value. I put a high value on the amount of time it would take to use systems that exist on OEM products, my time is limited. In either case I need to understand how each signal is produced and the conditioning needed to record.
I have tried using my digital camera to view the few instruments I have currently. In fact the lack of good gauges on my Coupe is what started this study. If I'm going to finally upgrade to new technology gauges, I want this info to give me the data to fine tune.
The one last piece of data I would like to record is the change in timing. So far the only “Off the Shelf” product that addresses this is the Mini/Mega Squirt. Their programming and products include a crank trigger pickup that will record the timing during changes in vacuum, RPM ect. There are also available timing control units that change timing electronically. This circuitry may be the way to go which could possibly eliminate the need for a trigger. Don’t know how this works, yet.
Thanks for the input, Ric.
you would need a baseline sensor to get crank postion and then compare it to the spark signal. I think it would take a little work with MS to get this to happen.
Really a MS1 with extra code should handle it for you though I would think.
BUT I had to say it again....
you could use the MS 1 with extra code to run a 2.3 OHC TFI distributor modded for a 200/250 to control your timing on a carbed motor. honestly it would give you a affordable programmable ignition (since you can set the curve and also retard for cranking and temp and provide a revlimiter) This would also put you one step closer to running a EFI setup. if you are already running a holley 2v carb a CFI or TBI unit would just be a short step away.
to log acceleration (well wheel speed at least) you can use a speedometer cable assembly from a 1980's ford with cruise control. they are a pass through cable design but also have a built in reluctor with a 2 wire output. you won't be able to account for wheel spin (well you can when you at a look at the derived wheel speed and look for where it makes a sudden drop when traction is gained)
Really a MS1 with extra code should handle it for you though I would think.
BUT I had to say it again....
you could use the MS 1 with extra code to run a 2.3 OHC TFI distributor modded for a 200/250 to control your timing on a carbed motor. honestly it would give you a affordable programmable ignition (since you can set the curve and also retard for cranking and temp and provide a revlimiter) This would also put you one step closer to running a EFI setup. if you are already running a holley 2v carb a CFI or TBI unit would just be a short step away.
to log acceleration (well wheel speed at least) you can use a speedometer cable assembly from a 1980's ford with cruise control. they are a pass through cable design but also have a built in reluctor with a 2 wire output. you won't be able to account for wheel spin (well you can when you at a look at the derived wheel speed and look for where it makes a sudden drop when traction is gained)
Point I'd like to make is that a simple ECU clip from a post 1995 California, or post 1996 Ford would do everything for signifcantly less. There is enough 'extensibility' to use the latter systems on pre 64 bit computers, so as long as you've got an isolated 110 volt inverter which isn't too noisy to ruin the digital signals, an old computer with a camera or AV video recording would do fine.
An associate does EEC4 and 5 reprograms for 5.0 and 5.8 liter small block Hot Rod in NZ. He has found that the US EEC5 is really easy to hook into, and it just requires the sixty sensors and PUC code to be active, and bang, your polling with Scan Code/Car Code. He does a chip upgrade which allows the stock chip to be altered to another chip parameter, the Smartlock PUC turned off, the manual settings to be imputed to the auto chip, or, for us Antipodeans where rock gas is so cheap, there is a Liquid Propane Gas enabler, which turns off the injectors. When using LPG on EEC5, the injectors are relayed off but still firing, and two or four O2 sensor still poll. Getting into the O2 monitoring is a little harder, but the kit does it.
The Alex Pepper set up runs off the EEC5 is like this. EEC5 is usually OBD2, but all you have to do is bolt on the Aussie 72-2 OHC sensor, the Thin Film hookup if its not EDIS, and a TPS and VSS sensor via Brantz meter or Fords great cruise control, and your able to poll of the sensors if they are hooked up. I've not offered the EEC5 OBD2 lockout because, potentially, any OBD2 kit could be locked out, and thats againt Fed law. But for a few bucks, its yours.
The standard outputs are many, but here for 100 ping are just a few....
http://www.obd-2.com/gauge1.gif
http://www.irv2.com/photopost/data/516/ ... 2_Scan.jpg
The Auto Tap with GM enhancement is pretty cool but expensive.
Or the Dash Hawk http://www.dashhawk.com/
An associate does EEC4 and 5 reprograms for 5.0 and 5.8 liter small block Hot Rod in NZ. He has found that the US EEC5 is really easy to hook into, and it just requires the sixty sensors and PUC code to be active, and bang, your polling with Scan Code/Car Code. He does a chip upgrade which allows the stock chip to be altered to another chip parameter, the Smartlock PUC turned off, the manual settings to be imputed to the auto chip, or, for us Antipodeans where rock gas is so cheap, there is a Liquid Propane Gas enabler, which turns off the injectors. When using LPG on EEC5, the injectors are relayed off but still firing, and two or four O2 sensor still poll. Getting into the O2 monitoring is a little harder, but the kit does it.
The Alex Pepper set up runs off the EEC5 is like this. EEC5 is usually OBD2, but all you have to do is bolt on the Aussie 72-2 OHC sensor, the Thin Film hookup if its not EDIS, and a TPS and VSS sensor via Brantz meter or Fords great cruise control, and your able to poll of the sensors if they are hooked up. I've not offered the EEC5 OBD2 lockout because, potentially, any OBD2 kit could be locked out, and thats againt Fed law. But for a few bucks, its yours.
The standard outputs are many, but here for 100 ping are just a few....
http://www.obd-2.com/gauge1.gif
http://www.irv2.com/photopost/data/516/ ... 2_Scan.jpg
The Auto Tap with GM enhancement is pretty cool but expensive.
Or the Dash Hawk http://www.dashhawk.com/
fastback69
Well-known member
http://Www.dataq.com
They have stand-alone data logging equipment. Quite a few mustang and lightning F150 tuners use them.
They have stand-alone data logging equipment. Quite a few mustang and lightning F150 tuners use them.
Similar threads
