Differences in heads

[Anonymous]

Are there any differences between the 200 head used in '64 and a 144 head used in '63?

I know that both will interchange, but, internally, are they the same?

 

[CZLN6]

HowdyFalcon'64:

Yes, there are differences between the '63 144 head and the '64 200 head. To be more accurate I'd need the casting # off each head, but here are some general specs.

144= casting #CODE-A, intake valves 1.467", exhaust 1.266", total intake volume-850cc, combustion chamber size ranged from 44-51ccs.

200= casting #s may be C1DE, C3DE, intake valve 1.52", exhaust 1.266", total intake volume-890cc, combustion chamber size ranged from 48-53ccs.

The early 200 heads appear to be identical to 170 heads of the same period.

Somewhere, in the transition from C3 to C5 castings, valve size and intake volume grew to; intake 1.649", exhaust 1.38", intake volume 1100cc.

All of these have a 1.5" carb hole.

Other internal functions, such as water and oil passages are very similiar.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

I can get a 170 head from a '63. So this is definitely the same as my 200? And there should be no change in performance when I put this on?

 

[Anonymous]

CZLN6 or any other experts can correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 1977 and newer head the best for use on a Ford Small Six, because it comes equipped w/ the largest valves Ford ever installed on this engine.
I don't recall their exact dimensions but I do know the '77 and up head has the largest valves.
And as you know, this engine's major shortcoming is it's breathing difficulties.
I wouldn't install anything but the best breathing head. What is the point otherwise?
You may want to shave .060 off the '77-up head to bump it's Compression Ratio up to 9 to 1.
The head is a bolt-on, AND also has the larger (1.75" vs 170 head's 1.50") carb bore.
Why bother with the 170 head when 200 heads are plentiful, cheap AND have larger valves and carb bore?.
Just look for any 200-equipped '77 and newer Fairmont, Zephyr, Granada..
Grab the larger Holley Model#1946 Carb and air cleaner from the donor 200 too (or a YFA from a 240 or 300 Six-equipped pre-'84 F-150).
The increased breathing of the large valve head and larger bore carb will definitely help your engine make more power. As will a low-restriction exhaust.

Just my opinion...
Good luck w/ your Six! :smash: :wrench:

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy back All:

Be careful to not jump to conclusions too fast. Falcon 64 only asked the difference between the 200 head used in '64 and a 144 head used in '63? He didn't ask which would be the best choice for performance. If he had, you'd be right on Rocko.

Falcon 64- be sure to check casting numbers. Later 170 were quite different from early 170s. Specs are the same as 200/250 from casting # DOXX on. But the 170 was discontinued for use in new cars in 1972.

If you are interested in getting the most in performance, life and mileage out of your engine, assuming the 170 head is compatible, consider having it rebuilt before installation. Add hardened valve seat inserts for unleaded fuel, have a three angle valve job, replace the valve stem seal, surface the deck to ensure flatness.

Know that you must compensate for the difference in compressed thickness on the original shim steel head gasket compared to the available composite type aftermarket head gaskets currently available. Stock OEM shim gasket= .025". Aftermarket composite type= .045" to .055". To maintain your performance you must mill the deck surface of the head the amount of the difference.

Enjoy the journey.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

My engine was rebuilt with a '78 head (not my choice). I had the 1946 carb and absolutely hated it. I would like to get the motor back to stock specs. I don't really care about increased performance.

I am positive that the 170 is a '63. The original owner says that it's the original motor that the car came with. The complete motor was rebuilt probably 20 years ago for his son to drive. Well, he lost interest, and it's been sitting ever since. Do you know what the casting numbers should be for a '63 170 and a '64 200 head so that I can compare to be sure?

Whatever head I find, I am planning on having it rebuilt. Since this one was rebuilt years ago, how would I know how much to have the deck milled?

BTW, what about these companies that sell rebuilt heads? Any opinions on them?

 

[Anonymous]

hey falcon 64
as far as i know the only way to find out if your head has milled in the past is to have it cc'd. somebody please correct me if i'm wrong. there used to be instructions on how to do it yourself somewhere on this forum but it probably got wiped out. i haven't tried it but if memory seves me you take
a piece of plexiglass with 2 pinholes in it ,lay it flat oover the chamber,
and squirt water into one of the holes with an 80cc syringe(spelling?)
until it starts to come out the other hole. then check and see how much water it took .shoud be something like 52 to 55 cc's i think. if it's less it's been milled. but if you're going to put it in the shop anyway you could just let them do it and save yourself a hassle.

if this doesn't sound right to somebody please speak up .i don't want to stear anybody wrong

 

[63comet]

Heh Simpleman, You are right in saying you use plexiglass (about 4" square) and you only need to drill one 1/4" hole, and then use a countersink or 1/2 drill in the same hole to chamfer the top, make sure your valves are in place and install a little vaseline on the seats of them as well as a little vaseline around the combustion chamber so the plexiglass seals also. Now slowly pour in automatic transmission fluid into the hole until you fill the combustion chamber up to the bottom of the hole and measure how much you used. By the way, the 63 170 head should take around 52cc's and the later heads will use around 62cc's, give or take some. Good Luck

 

[Anonymous]

CLNZ-
LOL ! I can never leave much of anything totally Stock so I assumed he was interested in increased performance.
You know what they say happens when you ASSUME.

Re your Falcon Performance book-
I have an '81 Fairmont I'm performing basic hop-up modifications to, including swappinf factory parts. I plan NO headers or multi-carb intakes tho, unless I fab 'em myself.
Would yor book be useful to me for such relatively lo-buck, lo-tech mods? or is it mostly aimed at restorers and big-buck rodders?
Just wondered. Thanks for the clarification on my post.
How familiar are you w/ YFA carbs used on Big & Small Sixes?
I'm trying to find the CFM of a YFA from an '80 F-150 w/ a 300 six...
:smash: :wrench:

 

[Anonymous]

Here's a question on a related note for CZLN6 or whomever else can help:

What year did Ford change the size of the hole in the intake log from 1.5" to 1.75"? Wasn't it around '69 or so?

I, too, want to keep the 1100 but would like the best head available for this application. Would it be beneficial to put a late '60s head w/ the 1.5" on my 200? What year should I look for?

 

[Anonymous]

hsfd202-
I suggest you read this entire thread for useful info..

My answer to your questions are:
'60 to '68 heads have 1.50" carb bore.
'69 to '83 heads have 1.75" carb bore.

Look for a head from a '77 to '83 200.
These heads not only have the larger 1.75" carb bore but also have the largest valves Ford ever installed in this head.

You will also be able to run either the Carter RBS, YFA or Holley Model #1946 carb. The RBS and Holley are the best choices for a basically Stock or mildly modified engine. The Holley Model 1946 has the larger 1/75" bore, as do SOME (not all) Carter YFA and RBS carbs.
You want the oldest carb w/ a 1.75" bore (measured at the throttle plate, the bottom), from a 200 or 250. Carbs from 300 "Big Sixes" may be too large for a Stock 200 and require modification.

If you want a Bolt-On swap, get the head and carb from an '81 Fairmont.
(What do YOU think, CZLN6?)

I don't know why some people complain about the Holley Model 1946.
I currently run a tuned Holley 1946 ((from an '81 Fairmont), and my car runs GREAT from Tip-in to Wide Open. Be sure to adjust your accel pump rod for a full pump shot and you should be fine.

Depending on what year and model your car is, while you're at the salvage yard getting your new head and carb, you may want to get the air cleaner, throttle cable and brackets, and maybe the Tranny Kickdown linkage- Compare your car's above parts to the donor car's.

Your engine will breathe much better with the larger valves and carb bore.
If aplicable, Gut your cat and put a low-restriction muff on it to help take advantage of it's new freer-breathing capabilities.

Again, read this entire thread..

Happy Wrenchin !
:smash: :wrench:

 

[Anonymous]

I had said that I wanted to keep the 1100, but wanted the best head available that still had the 1.5" carb. bore.

But you answered my question anyway about the '68 and older heads.

 

[Anonymous]

The main reason that I didn't like the Holley 1946 is because it would never stay tuned. The electric choke and fast idle ALWAYS seemed to adjust themselves from day-to-day. Even after tuning it to specs., it still wouldn't stay. I finally got tired of fooling around with it every day, so I am going back to the 1100, with which I've always had good luck.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy All:

It seems FoMoCo changed from 1.5" carb hole to a 1.75" carb hole sometime during the 1969 model year. Heads with casting # C9DE-C,F,J, & K all had 1.5" carb holes. The C9DE-M head was likely the first head with a 1.75" carb hole. This is also the first large volume, flat-topped intake log. Several later castings used the large volume, flat-topped design too. All DXXX and EXXX castings have a 1.75" carb hole. Some D7XX heads have the larger 1.75 intake valves and induction hardened exhaust seats. All D8XX and later casting have 1.75" intake valves and hard valve seat inserts.

Hsfd202- you can use your Autolite 1100 on a later head even though the carb bores do not match. You may have to elongate the mounting holes in the carb to match the mounting studs on the head. The later head is your best choice for all the reasons Rocko listed, Just know that your have to compensate for the two differences I described earlier; chamber volume and head gasket thickness.

I like the Autolite 1100s, too. They are quite simple and easy to work with. The accelerator pump system seems to wear out first, and so poor transitions are my first indication that it's time for a rebuild. Cleanliness is key on assembly. Isolateing it from too much under hood heat also helps avoid vapor locking and percolating problems.

The Holley #1946 is a more sophisticated carb, and consequently, more complicated. They are a little more worrisome to work on and to get "just right". It became more encumbered with EPA electronic feedback mechanisms each year. Running right, it should give better idle, transitions, economy and power than an Autolite 1100.

Rocko- Our book is aimed at exactly the hobbiest you described. It is more of a down-to-earth, find the best OEM parts, simple modifications, for the back yard hot-rodder. It would be nice if we had money to throw at our toys, but we don't, so we get creative, and try to get the most out of what we've got. I think it would be right up your alley.

Adios, David