Does anyone run a bypass (toilet paper) oil filter?

[thesameguy]

That's about what my GM 6.5l uses. IIRC the current Cummins ISX motors (like in a semi) is around 15l and uses about 12 gallons of oil. Somewhere in that neighborhood. That volume of oil necessitates using a bypass filter (bypass filtering is LESS filtering than full flow), but helps moderate oil temperatures thus extending drain intervals.

 

[80broncoman]

44 Gallons seems excessive. Some of the heavy equipment we used would take 40-50 quarts, but nowhere near that many gallons.

My goof I ment to say 44 quarts (or 11 Gallons) Which is still quite a High dollar oil change.
I will edit it to fix.

 

[80broncoman]

Cummins 5.9L straight 6 turbo diesel uses 11 quarts...

Not all. My 94 Ford with that engine holds 16 quarts.
The 89 7.3 diesel I have holds 11 quarts though.

 

[chad]

"... I thought about an AMSOIL or similar system with a replaceable filter...."
what I thought of reading the very 1st entry to the thread.

We accept used oil and send it out to the recycler. When the truck stopped by to p/u 1 day I asked about the process.
"It's heated and filtered. It goes back into "new oil" at about 1/20th by weight. Some of the properties are never lost." I forget what properties he mentioned - I think viscosity was one.

 

[First Fox]

"... I thought about an AMSOIL or similar system with a replaceable filter...."
what I thought of reading the very 1st entry to the thread.

We accept used oil and send it out to the recycler. When the truck stopped by to p/u 1 day I asked about the process.
"It's heated and filtered. It goes back into "new oil" at about 1/20th by weight. Some of the properties are never lost." I forget what properties he mentioned - I think viscosity was one.

I know the toilet paper thing seems really gimicky, but it apparently makes a great filtering medium. If any of you have actually dissected a "regular" spin on oil filter, it is likely that you were unimpressed at what you discovered after doing so. There is really nothing to them but paper and cardboard, and not very much of it at that. There is FAR more filtering medium in a roll of toilet paper and as I said before, it filters down to the sub micron level whereas the standard spin on filter only filters to the range of 30 microns. It is just one of those things that sounds stupid because it is unconventional and is obviously not its intended purpose. I am not sure what is used for a filter in this amsoil system, it could be a roll of toilet paper in a spin on filter for all I know. I will assume that it is just a super fine filter that does a similar job as a roll of TP but makes people feel it is more of a "proper" filtering media. Whatever works I guess.

And yes, at least when it comes to synthetic oils, the viscosity does NOT break down or wear out through heat cycles or other things that we have come to believe, and it can theoretically be used for ever IF you can filter out moisture and contaminants. The detergents are what get used up and need replenishing. Using this system and replacing the filter at regular intervals requires you to top off the system with a quart of new oil every 4000 miles or so which is introducing the some depleted detergents back to the oil. Mineral based oils do not have this ability and do indeed "break down" in viscosity and in other ways as well.

 

[chad]

sounds like U got some ed-u-macation. thanks for sharin ('s all new 2 me).

Wonder why it's OK then, to blend the old (dinosaurs) and the new (synthetic) when recycling then?...

 

[80broncoman]

sounds like U got some ed-u-macation. thanks for sharin ('s all new 2 me).

Wonder why it's OK then, to blend the old (dinosaurs) and the new (synthetic) when recycling then?...

One of our senior posters here has stated that you can even mix
20% synthetic with 80% Dino oil in you engine and get
80% of the synthetic advantage.
He did also note if I remember correctly good/pricy oil
Additive will not make up for buying low quality cheap oil.

 

[First Fox]

.
He did also note if I remember correctly good/pricy oil
Additive will not make up for buying low quality cheap oil.

I am 100 percent behind that theory. Adding anything to upset the additive package that is already in the oil is a step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned. I do loves me some STP as an engine assembly lube though. 8)

And Chad, I am not sure what they do about the mess of mixed fluids when it comes time to recycle oil, that is an interesting point. lt is my understanding that the majority of recycled oil gets turned into grease anyhow. Maybe the recyclers cannot effectively separate the stuff at all and the best they can do with it is make grease? Just a shot in the dark

 

[thesameguy]

Recycled oil is recycled oil and is sold as such. There is no such thing as "natural recycled oil" and "synthetic recycled oil," it all gets thrown into one bucket and recycled. There is no reason to separate the two.

When you recycle oil, it gets dewatered, evaporated, and hydrotreated before having whatever anti-foams, dispersants, and detergents added back in. For all intents and purposes, the "recycling" process is no different than the original refining process. I guess the only difference is that some molecules were naturally made, and some man made. Functionally, for the consumer, any quantity of recycled oil will be no better than full synthetic and no worse than full dinosaur. It's a distinction that probably isn't worth making.

Edit: And that reminds me - another reason why super-extended oil changes are not advisable is water. At a typical ~5,000 mile oil change your oil may be 5% or more water. The reason big bypass systems have heaters is to get that water out. Without a heater, you will accumulate water in your oil. As you can imagine, that is not good for the engine.

 

[First Fox]

Recycled oil is recycled oil and is sold as such. There is no such thing as "natural recycled oil" and "synthetic recycled oil," it all gets thrown into one bucket and recycled. There is no reason to separate the two.

When you recycle oil, it gets dewatered, evaporated, and hydrotreated before having whatever anti-foams, dispersants, and detergents added back in. For all intents and purposes, the "recycling" process is no different than the original refining process. I guess the only difference is that some molecules were naturally made, and some man made. Functionally, for the consumer, any quantity of recycled oil will be no better than full synthetic and no worse than full dinosaur. It's a distinction that probably isn't worth making.

Edit: And that reminds me - another reason why super-extended oil changes are not advisable is water. At a typical ~5,000 mile oil change your oil may be 5% or more water. The reason big bypass systems have heaters is to get that water out. Without a heater, you will accumulate water in your oil. As you can imagine, that is not good for the engine.

Yeah, like I said I know nothing about the recycling process and would not personally buy a recycled engine oil product anyway. But I certainly would recycle it myself with one of these nifty bypass filters. 8)

5% water? Where did you come up with that number? If there is 5% water in your oil @10,000 miles, is it reasonable to assume that the oil would contain 10% water @ 20,000 miles? At the 50,000 mile mark would it be 50% water? At the 100,000 mile mark the oil pan would be 100% purified drinking water with trace amounts of engine oil? I don't think that is the case at all and there are far too many guys out there that are running very long oil change intervals to have their crankcase full of water. There is of course some moisture absorbed by the oil and these bypass filters are said to help remove it.

I do believe there are a lot of "Cheap insurance" scare tactics that have been used by the people that have sold us oil our whole lives to get us to throw away a still-usable product just to buy more of it from them, as well as from automobile manufactures that were afraid of some idiot doing zero maintenance on his car and causing problems for them when the engine blew itself up.

There are a ton of uses oil analyses from a ton of people to show oil to be in good shape at much longer oil change intervals than we are used to.

 

[thesameguy]

Typical oil drain analysis is about 5%, plus or minus depending on when the drain occurred.

Water gets into your oil when it enters a hot, non-running engine (through the cap, breather, or PCV, usually) and condenses as the engine cools. Heating the oil sufficiently - such as on a long drive - will burn off most if not all of the water. However, cars driven most frequently on short trips can continue to accumulate water. If you've ever changed the oil on one of those cars where the little old lady that drives it to the store and back took five years to put 3,000 miles on it, you'd see what can happen. Looks like a blown head gasket. I did it to myself on a Saab I put 15k on in 10 years. That's when I started changing its oil annually regardless of mileage. Just not worth risking a multithousand dollar engine over $30 in oil.

 

[First Fox]

Typical oil drain analysis is about 5%, plus or minus depending on when the drain occurred.

Water gets into your oil when it enters a hot, non-running engine (through the cap, breather, or PCV, usually) and condenses as the engine cools. Heating the oil sufficiently - such as on a long drive - will burn off most if not all of the water. However, cars driven most frequently on short trips can continue to accumulate water. If you've ever changed the oil on one of those cars where the little old lady that drives it to the store and back took five years to put 3,000 miles on it, you'd see what can happen. Looks like a blown head gasket. I did it to myself on a Saab I put 15k on in 10 years. That's when I started changing its oil annually regardless of mileage. Just not worth risking a multithousand dollar engine over $30 in oil.

Yeah yeah, again... what your really saying is: "I don't know for sure, but it's cheap insurance". Filling the family minivan with premium fuel is "cheap insurance" against detonation too but it's not even remotely necessary. I wonder why we only apply this logic to engine oil. Do you also flush and change the fluids in your transmission, power steering, axle, brake system or antifreeze annually? Are those systems not worthy of "cheap insurance"?

Yes, I agree with you that is indeed how moisture gets into the oil. No argument there. I don't know how much moisture it takes to cause a problem and as I understand it, the presence of moisture can allow acids to form and can cause problems. I do however call bull$hit on your 5% number even being close to typical. If YOUR UOA's are coming back that high, you likely have problems. Mine came back @ 0.0% and 0.1% with Blackstone's own recommended value being Less than 0.1% and that seems to be typical of other UOAs I have seen.

If you want to start your own thread about oil longevity then go for it, but I would like to keep the rest of this thread on topic please. So again I will ask: Has anyone here actually USED one of these filter systems and how did it work out for you?

 

[thesameguy]

Fair enough. Good luck.

 

[ausxb]

Yes I have used one of these type filters on my 74mod falcon 250 six since the mid to late 90's. Initially I only changed the bypass filter element I eventually changed the oil more often as I started to race the vehicle in street sprints and thought this was better insurance.

I have had to rebuild the engine once after ten years as it failed due to detonation and was very suprised by how clean the internals were and the lack of wear evident. I refitted the bypass filter to the new engine and continued driving as a dailey driver and racing. After six years I have removed the engine to use in another vehicle. I have removed the sump to use on the new engine I'm building for racing in this vehicle and once again the inside of the old engine is very clean.

When I first fitted the bypass filter I also fitted a second one to the automatic transmission and only ever changed the filter and topped up the oil. The auto is still going strong and the colour of the oil is still red and doesn't smell burn't.

I can only say it has been a good investment as far as my situation has shown and will be fitting the same bypass filter to my new race engine.

In your case I can only say get your oil tested every 10,000miles and continue until the analysis says otherwise.

 

[chad]

to me it's the number of miles and "type of driving" (ie: high revs constantly? idle all day like some taxis & cop cars [mi don't relate to actual time running]? drive on dusty rds? commute 15 min 4 X a day? actual miles placed on odomiter, etc). Can U say more on this ausxb?

 

[ausxb]

Yes, I changed the bypass filter approx 1600-1800mile intervals and topped up engine oil. I guess the testing of the oil @ 10000miles is simply to see if the oil is still ok then retest @ 10000miles again until you work out the appropriate time to change the oil.
Everybody drives their car under normal conditions, just their normal might be different to mine. :rolflmao:
Yes short runs or dusty conditions vary the contaminants getting in the engine oil. I always made sure my engine was warmed up before I drove the car to minimise this on short runs. I guess the intervals would vary for changing the oil dependent on vehicle usage.