Does anyone run a bypass (toilet paper) oil filter?

[First Fox]

I will be installing a Frantz oil filter on my newly rebuilt daily driver and was curious if anyone here has used one. I know there are a couple of different brands of these systems, but yes I am talking about the bypass style that uses a roll of toilet paper for a filter element. 8)

I love the idea of using synthetic oil, but the cost to me is just too high to dump out and refill on a regular basis. These bypass filters are supposed to keep the filter clean to sub micron levels and although the element needs to be changed every 3000 miles or so, the oil itself being cleaned in such a manner can be used for a LONG time.

Anyway, I am going to give this a whirl since it is a fresh engine and I have become very interested in this idea of secondary oil filtration. And the cheapskate in me loves the idea of cleaning and using the same crankcase of oil for 100,00 miles.

Soooo, anyone actually using one of these?

 

[powerband]

yes I am talking about the bypass style that uses a roll of toilet paper for a filter element. ... Soooo, anyone actually using one of these? 8)

April 1st was yesterday , right?...

have fun

 

[First Fox]

yes I am talking about the bypass style that uses a roll of toilet paper for a filter element. ... Soooo, anyone actually using one of these? 8)

April 1st was yesterday , right?...

have fun

Yes is was indeed. 8)

Very serious. This filter system seems very antiquated and quite gimmicky, but after spending a lot of time researching it, it seems to really work and is even used on many big truck fleets. I think this is definately one of those things that looks stupid untill it is researched. Believe me, I was skeptical too.

 

[powerband]

one of my other cars is a off-topic Stovebolt six. 216 six has splash oiling and babbit squirters but no oil filter. Popular accessory was toilet paper bypass oil filter, but since was only in bypass line it only filtered a small portion of constant oil flow. No argument that it COULDwork ...

have fun

 

[JackFish]

Have you been to bobistheoilguy?
I haven't seen anyone here running one of those filters, and I've been here a while.
Maybe one of the big block guys might be.
Remember with synthetic you won't have to change it out before 5,000 miles or more, so it's not really that much more $$ since the oil change interval is longer. I'm running Redline and heck I've forgotten how long ago I changed it. In combination with a good oil filter that is probably all most anyone needs, except for engines that are seeing "extreme" duty.

 

[vssman]

I have a frantz filter assembly that I never got around to installing on my dialy driver diesel truck (it's a stright 6 so I guess I can mention it 8) ) to remove the soot from the oil. I know they work well and keep the oil clean. The TP has to fit tight in the holder and the 'rougher' stuff that is wound tighter on the roll is better. They also only filter with low flow/pressure - hence the bypass term. I thought about an AMSOIL or similar system with a replaceable filter. I can only imagine the Frantz system making a mess disassembling it to remove the TP.

 

[First Fox]

Yes, I have been on that site a lot lately. Those guys have a lot of knowledge about oil for sure.

I have been reading a bit about this topic and I know it sounds illogical and contrary to what we have all been told our whole automotive lives, but tossing oil out after 3 thousand or even 5 or 10 thousand miles is not really necessary. Those in the know seem to think that oil doesn't really "go bad" or "break down" unless it is allowed to get dirty and stay dirty. It can not become acidic unless moisture is allowed to contaminate the oil. By keeping the oil clean and dry, it can be used almost indefinitely.

There are guys that say they have used the same oil for 100,000 miles and even much more and are continuing its use after oil analysis determined it to be in good shape.

I love this kind of stuff. I do not have a lot of money wrapped up in this engine and I do not mind experimenting a bit as that is just how I am. I would likely not gamble with a $12,000 race engine, but if it turns out this actually works it would be one of those "why didn't I try this 20 years ago" situations. 8)

 

[First Fox]

I have a frantz filter assembly that I never got around to installing on my daily driver diesel truck (it's a stright 6 so I guess I can mention it 8) ) to remove the soot from the oil. I know they work well and keep the oil clean. The TP has to fit tight in the holder and the 'rougher' stuff that is wound tighter on the roll is better. They also only filter with low flow/pressure - hence the bypass term. I thought about an AMSOIL or similar system with a replaceable filter. I can only imagine the Frantz system making a mess disassembling it to remove the TP.

From what I understand, it is not that bad as far as e mess. The oil that is in the filter is supposed to drain back out of the unit after 10 minutes or so and it is pretty much dry thereafter. I may install mine upside down though where the actual canister is upside down, just for that reason as being pressurized, it works in any orientation.

I would love to hear back from you after you get your installed and hear some feedback. Very interested in this idea!

 

[vssman]

I would love to hear back from you after you get your installed and hear some feedback. Very interested in this idea!

I'll probably never get around to installing it as it's been on the work bench in the cellar for over 10 years. I look at it every now and then when I'm "cleaning" (read: moving tuff around) the basement. Actually the real issue is that the fit is tight on my truck and I have to poke a hole in the side of the oil pan for drain back. The cummins fills the engine bay and there isn't much room for anything else in there.

 

[First Fox]

I would love to hear back from you after you get your installed and hear some feedback. Very interested in this idea!

I'll probably never get around to installing it as it's been on the work bench in the cellar for over 10 years. I look at it every now and then when I'm "cleaning" (read: moving tuff around) the basement. Actually the real issue is that the fit is tight on my truck and I have to poke a hole in the side of the oil pan for drain back. The cummins fills the engine bay and there isn't much room for anything else in there.

Ok, thanks anyway. Just so you know, or for anyone else that may be reading this, since this system is pressurized it does not need to be gravity drained like a turbocharger oil system. You can plumb the return into the valve cover or even the filler cap. It is a pretty straight forward installation. Also, I have seen installations where the filter is in the bed of the truck, or even underneath the vehicle, being pressurized the location of the unit itself is not an issue. Just needs to be somewhat accessible for the element changes.

 

[thesameguy]

I really don't think there is any benefit to be had with any type of bypass filter on a gasoline engine, especially given the state of modern filters and modern oils. Diesel trucks run huge volumes of oil, and diesel engines create huge amounts of contamination that the oil and its filtration system must deal with. On a gasoline motor, you are far more likely to suffer temperature-related oil issues than contamination-related oil issues - especially on a six which has a pretty small sump to start with.

If you want to proceed with this project because of the novelty value of it obviously go right ahead - but if you're expecting a practical benefit you will probably find yourself disappointed. Before heading to Costco and stocking up on bum wipe, I'd consider sending a sample of your oil to Blackstone (etc.) for analysis, and see what sort of condition your oil is really in. Given you're running good oil and a quality filter, you'll probably find Castrol+Motorcraft is good for 5,000 or 10,000 miles in a six. Probably could extend that quite a bit by increasing the oil capacity of the engine, perhaps with an Accusump, etc.

 

[First Fox]

I really don't think there is any benefit to be had with any type of bypass filter on a gasoline engine, especially given the state of modern filters and modern oils. Diesel trucks run huge volumes of oil, and diesel engines create huge amounts of contamination that the oil and its filtration system must deal with. On a gasoline motor, you are far more likely to suffer temperature-related oil issues than contamination-related oil issues - especially on a six which has a pretty small sump to start with.

If you want to proceed with this project because of the novelty value of it obviously go right ahead - but if you're expecting a practical benefit you will probably find yourself disappointed. Before heading to Costco and stocking up on bum wipe, I'd consider sending a sample of your oil to Blackstone (etc.) for analysis, and see what sort of condition your oil is really in. Given you're running good oil and a quality filter, you'll probably find Castrol+Motorcraft is good for 5,000 or 10,000 miles in a six. Probably could extend that quite a bit by increasing the oil capacity of the engine, perhaps with an Accusump, etc.

It's not a novelty really, it is an experiment being done by a curious person who hears a lot of of : "...well, that is just what you are supposed to do, because we have always done it that way" Why do we all change our oil at 3,000 to 5,000 miles? Because that is what have been told we are supposed to do since we have been involved with vehicle maintenance, but has anyone of us actually tested the alternative? Probably not, but I will. If I am wrong and it is a miserable failure and I gunk my engine up and grenade the thing all over the place, that's fine. If I am that unfortunate I will report it too cause that's how I am, but at least I will know for certain. 8)

I have already sent an oil sample to Blackstone, two in fact. One from my old engine before replacing it, and one from my fresh engine after break in. Everything was in spec for both of them with the sample from the fresh engine having a higher percentage of wear metals from break in, but it was their opinion that it was quite normal. That doesn't tell me anything about what my oil would look like after 10,000 or 50,000 miles however. I have to roll the dice on that and I figure after everything I have read about these bypass filters, that it would help keep the oil clean as possible. This seems to be the key in making the oil last a long time.

After my research it seems that "modern" filters are part of the problem not the part of the solution. It seems the quality of the average filter that we depend on to keep our oil clean is just terrible. And "modern" oils contain less of the goodies our older engines need and can also be seen as part of a problem. This information is out there for everyone to see.

I am just not a very wasteful person by nature, and unless there is a better reason than "That's just what we have always done", I would like to keep $30 or $40 worth of perfectly good oil in my crankcase than throw it away just because that what is recommended by the very people that make their living by selling us more oil.

 

[bubba22349]

Way... back in 1966 I had an after school and weekend job were I changed or repaired tires, serviced, and cleaning on a fleet of Taxi cabs and Avis rental cars. Everyone of the Taxi's had a TP type filter many where the Frantz filters rest were an AC canister with Frantz conversion parts inside. It was a long time ago but they sure seemed to work at cleaning up the oil we never changed the oil just the filter and add a quart I had to keep a service log think it was monthly don't remember the mileage (maybe 1500 to 2500 range) all the cars were inline 6's and a few 4's (brand X) and all had very high total mileage. The filters were set vertical and close to one side so were easy to get too there usually there was not much mess and the AC filter cans were a little faster to change TP in. These Taxis had had the TP filters for years before I started likely soon after when the cars were purchased new. When I first started they had not been serviced as often so the oil was dirty and darker, within a short time the TP cleaned up the oil again in one or two filter changes. Somewhere in my garage I should have a new Frantz that my dad bought to put on his truck.

 

[thesameguy]

I am just not a very wasteful person by nature, and unless there is a better reason than "That's just what we have always done", I would like to keep $30 or $40 worth of perfectly good oil in my crankcase than throw it away just because that what is recommended by the very people that make their living by selling us more oil.

I think you'll find that the only people who recommend 3,000 or 5,000 mile oil changes are the people who sell oil changes. I don't think there is a single automobile manufacturer who recommends such short oil change intervals. I know my '79 Cougar (351m) recommended a 7,500 mile change, my '00 Saab 9-3 a 10,000 mile change, and my '07 Solstice seems to expect an oil change around the 8,000 mile mark (I rely on the computer to tell me!). I know my buddy's '08 BMW is good for 15,000 miles. The only place selling 3,000 mile changes is Jiffy Lube, and they probably should given the crap they put on and in peoples' cars!

I feel the problem with pursuing this course of action is less that you'll grenade your engine, but more than you won't learn anything. Maybe your engine will blow up and maybe it won't, but you won't actually know anything til you've run the same experiment on a dozen cars for a decade. One filter on one car is anecdotal at best. My ex-girlfriend put 76,000 miles on her bone-stock 2002 Celica without a single oil change before the engine finally seized. A friend of mine claimed - of this I have no proof - that he changed the oil in his '80s Subaru twice in the 200,000 miles he had it. There are plenty of examples of cars who have run exceedingly long periods of time with totally conventional lubrication systems, and plenty examples of cars that didn't make it off the showroom floor. Putting a Frantz on and driving for the rest of your life would be interesting, but hardly compelling evidence as to its efficacy.

Just my thoughts!

 

[powerband]

... depression era / rationing practices included changing the oil from my fathers work car using it to replace (and top-off) the oil in the other/moms car with it. . Filters (?) were occasionally changed and old oil kept scrabble road less dusty... :roll:

 

[bmcgc1960]

I change my oil every 8,000 miles. I change the filter at 4,000 miles with a $2.50 Walmart filter and then top off.

 

[Asa]

Those in the know seem to think that oil doesn't really "go bad" or "break down" unless it is allowed to get dirty and stay dirty.

That doesn't make sense to me, heat cycles are going to have an effect on the composition of the oil

From what I understand, it is not that bad as far as e mess. The oil that is in the filter is supposed to drain back out of the unit after 10 minutes or so and it is pretty much dry thereafter. I may install mine upside down though where the actual canister is upside down, just for that reason as being pressurized, it works in any orientation.

The base I worked at for a while had paper-towel roll filters on pretty much all of their old heavy-equipment.
Yes, it will drain down after a while, but dry after 10 minutes is a gross understatement. We had to leave those things to drip-drain for a solid 24-48 hours, and even then if you squeezed it you'd get some out.

If you install yours upside down, you'll only leave it that way for the time it takes you to clean up the mess once.

 

[80broncoman]

I think they are a good thing. And there are spin on bypass filters. Some are easy to spot. We had/still have? a clark fork lift at my work that only has a bypass filter. I have been in that department in a long time.
When you have the normal size filter off you can see the holes the oil flows though are only a pair .060 for a 1 quart size filter.

A LOT of OTR truck use them to cut Waaay down on oil changes. Some of these system are call purifiers and have heating element to get rid of coolant.
Here is a kit for the 5.9 Cummins diesel on ebay (no heating element).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-CUMMINS-5 ... 3a7cc7e787

On most of the big trucks you need about 44 Quarts of oil per change + filters. so it does make sense to many.

 

[Asa]

44 Gallons seems excessive. Some of the heavy equipment we used would take 40-50 quarts, but nowhere near that many gallons.

 

[vssman]

Cummins 5.9L straight 6 turbo diesel uses 11 quarts...