All Small Six Saved A 250ci.

[Cali65]

Howdy folks,

Walking through the junkyard and spotted a complete but rusted 78 Granada. Came back the next day and found that the engine was not seized. Noticed that someone put a lot of effort into trying to getting it running some time ago. Clean oil, new fuel pump, clean antifreeze, new power steering fluid. New plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Valve cover bolts and gasket were new, new fuel filter, air filter. Had a jumper wire from the coil to the starter solenoid. 78 block with 77 head.

Decided to take a chance and pull the head. Cylinder walls were nice but the cylinder next to the water pump had a ridge in it. I pulled the motor and bought it that day. I took it apart and couldn't get the piston out that has the ridge in the sleeve. I've read where these 200 and 250 are know for that. I dropped it off to the machine shop for cleaning and magnaflux. They called and said that the block and head have no cracks. They said they could sleeve the cylinder which is great. I want to build this motor for my 65 as it has a 200 in it now that smokes like a freight train. There is a 77 maverick a few cars down from it that still has it's 250 motor and I can grab it's engine mounts. Any other things to have the block and head checked for?

 

[chad]

like to inspect'n measure @ dissasembly. Might cc the head to see if it's been touched,
might measure the block to C if it been shaved or even decked. Look @ all bearings. Y is
only 1 cylinder ridged? Cant machine to tolerance? (I think we go max 30 over for clen ups
& easily available pistons). Keep talkin~

 

[Cali65]

Hi Chad. Thank you for the suggestions. Next Monday I'll drop by and ask them to cc the head and block. The crank and rod bearings had Ford part numbers on them. The rod bearings had more wear obviously. I've read here that the first cylinder usually has a rid do to core shift or running too cool due as it so close to the water pump. The machine shop owner was familiar with it happening to these motors but he rarely see's Ford 200 or 250ci engines these days. He was shocked the head wasn't cracked. He'll try to machine that first cylinder down .30 and do the same for the rest. He talked about boring to .40 for all of them or sleeve that cylinder and doing .30. I would worry anything more than .30 would make it run too hot? The other cylinders are standard bore so I would assume this engine has possibly never been rebuilt before? Not unless it had a D7 head put on the D8 block in the past but its plausible that it could've put together at the factory like that. The four rods are dated D8 and the other two are D7. He's doing .10 on the crankshaft this week.

My plans are a built motor for the street and cruising, no strip. Very interested in 300ci rods and I know that requires custom pistons. Was interested in a VI aluminum head but I've see the fiasco of getting one of those seems very unlikely. I feel sorry for the owner of VI as it looks like he's at his wits end and it's out of his control. So I've got the D7 head that I can use and get it machined for a 2300 Sniper EFI or equivalent. And get roller rockers, springs for a performance cam. I know these engines don't like too much compression. What would the safe amount of compression be? Or should I ask that after seeing what size the cylinders are bore out to? Transmission is a rebuilt WC T5 out of a 89 GT Mustang with a 57 and a 59 nine inch rear. I've currently got a 3.50 and 3.56 ratio ring and pinion but was thinking of a 3.73 since I pulled the 250ci.

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

Hi Chad. Thank you for the suggestions. Next Monday I'll drop by and ask them to cc the head and block. The crank and rod bearings had Ford part numbers on them. The rod bearings had more wear obviously. I've read here that the first cylinder usually has a rid do to core shift or running too cool due as it so close to the water pump. The machine shop owner was familiar with it happening to these motors but he rarely see's Ford 200 or 250ci engines these days. He was shocked the head wasn't cracked. He'll try to machine that first cylinder down .30 and do the same for the rest. He talked about boring to .40 for all of them or sleeve that cylinder and doing .30. I would worry anything more than .30 would make it run too hot? The other cylinders are standard bore so I would assume this engine has possibly never been rebuilt before? Not unless it had a D7 head put on the D8 block in the past but its plausible that it could've put together at the factory like that. The four rods are dated D8 and the other two are D7. He's doing .10 on the crankshaft this week.

My plans are a built motor for the street and cruising, no strip. Very interested in 300ci rods and I know that requires custom pistons. Was interested in a VI aluminum head but I've see the fiasco of getting one of those seems very unlikely. I feel sorry for the owner of VI as it looks like he's at his wits end and it's out of his control. So I've got the D7 head that I can use and get it machined for a 2300 Sniper EFI or equivalent. And get roller rockers, springs for a performance cam. I know these engines don't like too much compression. What would the safe amount of compression be? Or should I ask that after seeing what size the cylinders are bore out to? Transmission is a rebuilt WC T5 out of a 89 GT Mustang with a 57 and a 59 nine inch rear. I've currently got a 3.50 and 3.56 ratio ring and pinion but was thinking of a 3.73 since I pulled the 250ci.

If he was at wits end and really wanted to get aluminum heads out there he would have responded to my offer....

 

[chad]

"...What would the safe amount of compression be?..."
I'd phrase it as "what octanc will U use?" & "Whats the level of
80% of ur driving RPMs?"

"...really wanted to get aluminum heads out..."
leaves out some other realities but
yes, national (he found a Cal caster) covid/post covid supply chain, sure, & major
issues (esp in merica - "dealers/distributors" are 'approved' vendors for geographic areas,
no 1 else can sell, think car dealers or beer distributors) created hassel.
I B membah bubs reaction... 1st X I ever saw his feathers ruffled (15 yrs).

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

"...What would the safe amount of compression be?..."
I'd phrase it as "what octanc will U use?" & "Whats the level of
80% of ur driving RPMs?"

"...really wanted to get aluminum heads out..."
leaves out some other realities but
yes, national (he found a Cal caster) covid/post covid supply chain, sure, & major
issues (esp in merica - "dealers/distributors" are 'approved' vendors for geographic areas,
no 1 else can sell, think car dealers or beer distributors) created hassel.
I B membah bubs reaction... 1st X I ever saw his feathers ruffled (15 yrs).

I'll just say I do not know Matt personally, but I have reached out to him. Hopefully he will read my email and get in contact with me.

Only time will tell.

 

[Cali65]

I guess I would be driving in the lower RPM's. And higher octane gas. Looking to get torque more than hp in the build.

 

[chad]

I'd go for just a lill past 9, 9.1?
Dont need hi compression.
87/91 octane's the one.

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

I'd go for just a lill past 9, 9.1?
Dont need hi compression.
87/91 octane's the one.

If you soften the chambers a little and get around 9.5:1 with a mild cam it’s should be good with premium fuel. If you add a larger camshaft you might be able to run regular as it will drop your dynamic comp a bit. If you want to run higher compression ratios a .040 quench will help reduce detonation also.

 

[Cali65]

Sorry, it's been a busy few days. This is my first engine build so I had to read up on the term quench. I appreciate all the responses. Why is detonation such a problem? It it because the increase in compression?

 

[Cox Custom Mechanical]

Yes, increasing fuel octane helps reduce detonation with higher compression ratios.

 

[Cali65]

Update, I got around to pulling the frame mounts off that 76 Maverick 250ci today. I got them for $16. I'll have to read up on how people have dealt to with the non existent motor mounts. Recently I've become good friends with an experienced fabricator/welder so maybe I'll get his help on maybe modifying some to fit. The machine shop is slammed as everyone is getting engines rebuilt left and right. Cause it cheaper than buying a new or used car. They've sent my crank off to be machined .10.

 

[chad]

hard to see but look like what I used on the bronk (w/250). Torched off the
bent8, welded on the i6, did not separate at the rivet. Lowered motor on w/o transmis.
One's for the R, one for the L (see slant & size difference) but I'm not sure I kept that in
mind when using.

 

[Cali65]

Sorry about that. These have parts of the engine mounts that mount on the block with them. I cobbled them together before I bought the as the junkyard I pulled them from will charge for each one if they are separate. I'll take them off and get a better picture.

 

[chad]

"late Mav mounts" I was told to get.
Member here sold them to me. They canme rivited to join (the 'tower' to the 'mount') engine mount / frame tower.

"...get a better picture...."
just put ona table, near edge, standing up right. Come to edge, same hight, geta shot. (All 6 sides would B great but justa 'above' & 'side" is enuff for folks here). Bolts removed might make it easier to shoot too.

 

[PSIG]

Any other things to have the block and head checked for?

See if a properly-sized turbo is attached. If not, acquire a suitable one and connect it. Seriously, if using the Sniper, that's a proven combo that tunes well for reliability and can make K-code power on pump gas - but the EFI control is the magic sauce to get it there with minimal fuss.

 

[Cali65]

I'd like the idea of forced induction. I already plan on a set of custom forged pistons with 300ci rods. My rear is a 9 inch with a V8 T5 and I wouldn't be after crazy power. A supercharged or turbo Inline six is so unusual. Not a cheap endeavor especially with EFI but I like the idea of keeping this car a inline six.

 

[powerband]

"I'd like the idea of forced induction."

I'm always looking for more Forced Induction advocates and advice , here's my .$ .02 from previous thread:

I run a Maverick 250 with a centrifugal supercharger in Blow-Thru Carb config', been reliable for @ 2 yrs (2K m ?) . Working on boost vs RPM curves with pulley 'gearing' and pressure relief 'Blow Off' valve. Has stock pistons, cam, ARP head bolts, 302 springs 2X1 adapter and Holley 2300 . AFR's are good through RPM range. Ignition is advance limited. Un-milled OEM iron head with typical @ 62cc chambers yield SCR @ 8:1.

Runs with no faults with boost up to @ 5-8 lbs. Higher boost significantly increases detonation and blow-by concerns. At @ 3.5 K RPM can easily pass 10 Lbs with current SC ratio's and often does...

.

. ..

have more boosted fun
.

.
Ford Small Block Six 250 CID inline . Stock block and cam with measured and worked 62 cc chamber head, HD V8 valve springs, ARP head bolts. Holley 2300 - 7448 2Bbl heavily modified for blow-through/ boost, Aeromotive 1:1 boost referenced regulator and FI electric pump and return at tank. Flame Thrower rev-limited HEI ignition - DS II distributor modified for vac and centrifugal boost advance limiting. Vortech V-2 centrifugal supercharger with pulley ratio spec’d for inline six 250' powerband. Centerforce weighted clutch, T5-Z 'Cobra' 5 Speed, 3.80 rear. AM radio and bench seat.

 

[PSIG]

I'd like the idea of forced induction. I already plan on a set of custom forged pistons with 300ci rods. …

Boost is the least-stressful way to make power. Seriously. To that end stuff like forged pistons and stronger rods are not necessary for anything under wild boost (racing), or boost coupled with high rpm (which is a greater stress than boost). Bone stock with minor mods as @powerband listed is plenty for street, and a dedicated cam with valve timing for boost will extend the buffer from pump gas detonation substantially.

Sure, back in the day carbs and mechanical distributors could only do half the job, and the ones trying only knew half the tricks. That's when "forged everything' was the insurance policy for inadequate tuning or poor fuel. Those days are gone with knowledge, WBO2, and EFI. Get a handle on it and take the leap! You can get lots of quality help and guidance from many sources.

 

[chad]

"...many sources."

FordSix Performance Forum

FordSix Forum

fordsix.com

turbo-supercharger-and-nitrous.22/
& I'd use
.............. https://fordsix.com/forums/fuel-injection-mega-squirt.51/
too if I could (altho 4 me, carb/blow thru might B easier as I'd have 2 systems to learn).