Powerband I've been following you and recently Wayne Clark. Your Maverick is badass! I think it's amazing you've been able to run a supercharger on a stock motor. Other than ARP head bolts and an upgraded head gasket. Reliability and driveability is what I'd like to have with forced induction. With some nice power without being a cookie cutter V8.
All Small Six Saved A 250ci.
- Thread starter Cali65
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
PSIG
Well-known member
Whether increased power NA, boost, nitrous, etc; the most important component is tuning. Sure, better fuel and parts selection set the basis. But whatever the combination, tuning will extract the maximum performance that build is capable-of, while avoiding the bad stuff. With tuning, you can regulate when and how your build makes power, safely.
Think of it like a musical instrument. The most expensive piano in the world only makes noise until it is tuned. Our engines are similar, and require tuning to make their music. While most any control can 'work', EFI and electronic ignition control is much more precise, and can do much more, but of greater value is that it's much easier to tune effectively and safely. This is not commercial "auto-tune", but real in-the-weeds tuning, made sooo much easier with logs to 'see' how the engine is responding and functions to assist you. The
If you like carbs, you'll love EFI. If you have carb tuning skills, they move right over to EFI, where you only have to relate terms. New 'tools'. If you don't, EFI makes it far easier to learn those required skills.
The motor is at the machine shop. I just pulled and bought the engine, alternator, carb and brackets. Even before I pulled the frame mounts off that Maverick the yard had crushed the rest of that Granada. A pity too as it had a 8 inch rear end and it still had the spindles on it. It was the only 250ci I saw in person to have an 8 inch. The crankshaft has been sent off and no machining has been done to the block yet. I need to decide on if I'm going to pull the trigger on forced induction first.
I'm leaning towards EFI as I struggle with carbs. Mainly from inexperience although I'd be interested to rea what Powerband did to his carb in detail. I've got better pictures of the 76 Maverick frame mounts. One of them has elongated holes, weird. Will this be a problem? One I can read is stamped D6. And the other with the elongated holes im having a hard time reading.
I'm leaning towards EFI as I struggle with carbs. Mainly from inexperience although I'd be interested to rea what Powerband did to his carb in detail. I've got better pictures of the 76 Maverick frame mounts. One of them has elongated holes, weird. Will this be a problem? One I can read is stamped D6. And the other with the elongated holes im having a hard time reading.
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don't wanna get too far in the weeds - almost another thread ... :
no secret formulas'. the Holley 2300 series 2Bbl uses all (1/2) the same parts as universal Holley 4Bbl carb so it is well researched..
Here's the simple "Hangar18" Blow-Through conversion for the Holley 2300 2 Bbl as well as 4Bbl 4150. Mav's SC carb uses some of the mods.
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... Isn't CARBURETOR French for Don't F%$k with it ? ...
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no secret formulas'. the Holley 2300 series 2Bbl uses all (1/2) the same parts as universal Holley 4Bbl carb so it is well researched..
Here's the simple "Hangar18" Blow-Through conversion for the Holley 2300 2 Bbl as well as 4Bbl 4150. Mav's SC carb uses some of the mods.
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... Isn't CARBURETOR French for Don't F%$k with it ? ...
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“...thread...” U mean forum (as well) ?
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left out my seconding of Psig's great nugget above:
“...boost, nitrous, etc; the most important component is tuning. Sure, better fuel and parts selection set the basis. But whatever the combination, tuning will extract the maximum performance that build is capable-of..."
with the modern addition ofa wide-band O2 & it’s meeter. Old school mechanics use ear, eye, vac gauge, timing/dwell light, etc. I can not
convince the boss to use but C it as a finer (more precise) tool for these purposes.
“...boost, nitrous, etc; the most important component is tuning. Sure, better fuel and parts selection set the basis. But whatever the combination, tuning will extract the maximum performance that build is capable-of..."
with the modern addition ofa wide-band O2 & it’s meeter. Old school mechanics use ear, eye, vac gauge, timing/dwell light, etc. I can not
convince the boss to use but C it as a finer (more precise) tool for these purposes.
Howdy peeps. A little update, the crank is done but that's it. I would like to do an EFI engine build for a supercharger but not all at once. Build the the motor and do EFI first. Then supercharge it in the future. I need a list of things to do to the 77 head and block for the build. I know I need to get a custom set of low compression forged pistons, what compression ratio? On another note this week I had my 28 spline small bearing 9" third member rebuilt with Trutrac and 3.50 gears.
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I also need a parts list as I forgot to mention that. What camshaft to get to run EFI naturally aspirated then forced induction down the road. Speaking of parts my friend who rebuilt my third member and installed my axle bearing had some extra 6cyl items. I got a Clifford header for $50 but I need to clean it it up as it rusted. Also he had a new in the box upgraded sway arm kit. I snagged that for $50 also.
cant stock cams go efi? What needs changed
for the “throttle body’ efis, not much eh?
Do you size a SC like the turbo (concentrate on size
of frnt’n back ‘blades’? their relational size to each other, oh, no
wait. They have only one impeller/set of blades/turbo). How do
you size it for use/installation ?
for the “throttle body’ efis, not much eh?
Do you size a SC like the turbo (concentrate on size
of frnt’n back ‘blades’? their relational size to each other, oh, no
wait. They have only one impeller/set of blades/turbo). How do
you size it for use/installation ?
Stock cam can as powerband is running a stock setup. I was just wondering what options are there to do forced induction? I was thinking mild boost nothing crazy. The car is a cruiser and never will see the track. Not sure really on sizing? I guess it depends on what level I want it to be. Wayne has had success with doing a older style Paxton with EFI so I may go that route.
I had plans to do this all at once but some recent dental work did a big karate chop on my funds. So build the motor now for forced induction later and still enjoy driving it. That's why would like the advice of a choosing a performance cam kit that would be good with EFI and forced induction.
I had plans to do this all at once but some recent dental work did a big karate chop on my funds. So build the motor now for forced induction later and still enjoy driving it. That's why would like the advice of a choosing a performance cam kit that would be good with EFI and forced induction.
you’d think the Schjeldahl bros would have written that up (Kings of the staged approach to build ups) or low pressure
turbo’n blow thru carb. How’d you choose the former over the latter? Want that reliability, adaptability of the efi? Now
we have sequentil port the ol ‘throttle body’ style seems minimal.
Like the way the ign systems got better’n better (wsa111 always urgin me on to complete an upgrade all the way, not just
DSII) over the yrs I think “Y just do the minimum if headin there.
(Well, because the ‘final’ is a pretty big leap!!!).
turbo’n blow thru carb. How’d you choose the former over the latter? Want that reliability, adaptability of the efi? Now
we have sequentil port the ol ‘throttle body’ style seems minimal.
Like the way the ign systems got better’n better (wsa111 always urgin me on to complete an upgrade all the way, not just
DSII) over the yrs I think “Y just do the minimum if headin there.
(Well, because the ‘final’ is a pretty big leap!!!).
PSIG
Well-known member
As we do not have access to advantages such as VVT and other options, the usual go-to is the same scheme as early factory pump-gas turbo cars of the '80s and '90s. Those involved a boost-friendly cam to set pressure curves, and much reduced compression to allow more boost multiplication. Generally, you will find not much of any reduction in performance using lower compression, and we found we could make more power on a low-comp engine that was built well (blueprinted), than factory rating.
Rather than an overview of concepts and principles on how to approach cam valve timing for boost on det-limited fuels; I'd simply suggest contacting a custom cam grinder and get their perspective on all of these general questions, as they would be the ones regulating the timing that all the parts and fuel would have to work with.
An example could be Delta Cams, with more custom options at generally lower cost. Be prepared with your expectations and parameters to guide their advice. And, don't leave them hanging. Tell them up-front if you like what they say, you will buy what you need from them on that call if possible, as a reward for their valuable time and attention. You're serious. Too many call for free expert advice and never return.
Rather than an overview of concepts and principles on how to approach cam valve timing for boost on det-limited fuels; I'd simply suggest contacting a custom cam grinder and get their perspective on all of these general questions, as they would be the ones regulating the timing that all the parts and fuel would have to work with.
An example could be Delta Cams, with more custom options at generally lower cost. Be prepared with your expectations and parameters to guide their advice. And, don't leave them hanging. Tell them up-front if you like what they say, you will buy what you need from them on that call if possible, as a reward for their valuable time and attention. You're serious. Too many call for free expert advice and never return.
Wayne clark
Well-known member
Contact Ron Bryer on the C
Vintage 6 Mustang
Facebook site he makes & sell some custom mounts
With adding a 250ci engine, T5 trans and modified driveshaft. Plus a Chocostang five lug replica disc brake setup with V8 spindles/steering linkage. With a 9 inch rear with drum brakes this car is going to be much heavier. It might be that doing a hotter cam might not have the performance without the supercharger installed? Or that the EFI 250ci will be a good combo with a stock cam until I get the charger kit. I did save old stock cam out of the 250 I guess I can send it off to be reconditioned.
Jmustang_65
Well-known member
Call Kevin @Schneider cams and he will recommend one.
Efi options are Sniper 2300 and Aces Duces EFI.
Supercharger kits can be bought from Paradise Wheels in California.
Jmustang_65
Well-known member
He's on here as @CoupeBoy
Some of us are not on Facebook, and the Vintage Mustang 6 Forum is private.
Posts on a private page cannot be openly viewed.
Wayne clark
Well-known member
You should put a Hyper spark dist in it . I run a 2300 Sniper & Hyper spark on my 67 stock small log headed 200 thru a 2x1 adapter along with a Paxton supercharger. That 200 loves haveing the fuel jammed.in.it . Runs like a v8"I'd like the idea of forced induction."
I'm always looking for more Forced Induction advocates and advice , here's my .$ .02 from previous thread:
I run a Maverick 250 with a centrifugal supercharger in Blow-Thru Carb config', been reliable for @ 2 yrs (2K m ?) . Working on boost vs RPM curves with pulley 'gearing' and pressure relief 'Blow Off' valve. Has stock pistons, cam, ARP head bolts, 302 springs 2X1 adapter and Holley 2300 . AFR's are good through RPM range. Ignition is advance limited. Un-milled OEM iron head with typical @ 62cc chambers yield SCR @ 8:1.
Runs with no faults with boost up to @ 5-8 lbs. Higher boost significantly increases detonation and blow-by concerns. At @ 3.5 K RPM can easily pass 10 Lbs with current SC ratio's and often does...
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have more boosted fun
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Ford Small Block Six 250 CID inline . Stock block and cam with measured and worked 62 cc chamber head, HD V8 valve springs, ARP head bolts. Holley 2300 - 7448 2Bbl heavily modified for blow-through/ boost, Aeromotive 1:1 boost referenced regulator and FI electric pump and return at tank. Flame Thrower rev-limited HEI ignition - DS II distributor modified for vac and centrifugal boost advance limiting. Vortech V-2 centrifugal supercharger with pulley ratio spec’d for inline six 250' powerband. Centerforce weighted clutch, T5-Z 'Cobra' 5 Speed, 3.80 rear. AM radio and bench seat.
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