Drawing the Line on Money--Head/Cam Upgrade

[BIGREDRASA]

I received my D7 head this morning. I have contacted Mike, to see if he'll knock a few bucks off the 264 Single Plane Hydraulic Cam Kit, by eliminating the cam bearings. I've got a messed up rotator cuff, and don't really want to pull the engine. I just want to do an "In-frame" head and cam swap. Will I be OK with my stock Springs, Rockers and Pushrods? My current engine has less than 30,000 miles on a rebuild, and has been kept well-oiled. 8)

This car is intended to be a real "GT" car. Namely, Grand Touring. I plan a trip to Cali in September, and just want to cruise at +/- 3,000 RPM. :vert

I have a reputable machine shop lined up, which specializes in restoration work. How badly do I need the 289/302 Valve Springs and Stainless Steel Valves? I will either keep the HW 5200, or install a Carter YF I have in the garage. I have toyed with the idea of having the head set up for a direct mount Motorcraft 2V, which I'm sure will give better distribution than any 2 into 1 adapter. The M 2V would also open up other options in Air Cleaners.

 

['68falconohio]

Let me know if you need pics of the direct mount on a D7 head.

Stephen

 

[Anlushac11]

IMHO its more important to have good high quality springs, keepers, and retainers, than stainless valves.

 

[Lazy JW]

..... Will I be OK with my stock Springs, Rockers and Pushrods? ....

Probably, so long as you NEVER exceed 4000 rpm.

 

[gtm1086]

I would go with the 2V carb. As for the springs, valves and such. Go with what your machine shop tells you.

 

[falcon fanatic]

I'd say springs are pretty darned important (and relatively cheap), but stock rockers, pushrods & valves will probably be fine. Still, while you've got it all apart, you should do some head work including mild porting in the pockets (the stock casting is really quite poor), and yes, modify the log for direct mount 2V if that's in your plans at any point. Depending on your current compression ratio, milling to increase CR will make a nice improvement in power across the board, too. All of these things will work together nicely.

I just swapped my cam "in the frame" as you say. Left the bearings in place and so far all seems well. Oil pressure is exactly what it was before. Car runs like doo doo for some reason, but I am hopeful to remedy that soon.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Tony and All:

IIWIYS- I'd stick with stock springs, but I'd shim them up .030". I'd be concerned about stock, OEM, non-adjustible rockers, considering all the changes and machining you're likely to do. I'd suggest, at least, some OEM adjustibles and matching pushrods, to make sure lifter pre-load can be maximized.

Other then that, I'd spend my money on internals, so I wouldn't have to pull the head again to add later.

Other then that, it sounds like you've go a good plan. Good luck.

Adios, David

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Weeeelll, since I sold a camera and a couple of tires, which money went into Paypal, my credit card won't show the total charge.

I ordered the 264/264 SP 112* Cam kit, 1.75/1.5 valve set, 289 (80 lb) valve springs, retainers, stock timing set, head gasket, and header gasket. I'll use the stock pushrods and rockers (adjustable).

I'll do some exhaust port matching while I wait. I have a 22,000 RPM Die Grinder. I used a metal bit before. Is there a reason to use stones instead? Are stones easier to control?

The machinist warned against using some synthetic oils with flat tappet camshafts, because of their lack of Zinc. Guess it's time to go back to see updated oil comps. It would appear that the Motorcraft Synthetic Blend should be OK, since that's what Ford recommends in the 3.8 L in my Windstar; and I use in my vehicles. If not, I guess I'll have to do some more research into conventional oils.

 

[Lazy JW]

.....

The machinist warned against using some synthetic oils with flat tappet camshafts, because of their lack of Zinc.....

Where do people come up with this nonsense?

 

['68falconohio]

.....

The machinist warned against using some synthetic oils with flat tappet camshafts, because of their lack of Zinc.....

Where do people come up with this nonsense?

Please elaborate. There seems to be mixed emotions on this forum from a lot of members on the ZDDP content of the oil. Why do you feel it's not necessary?

I was also warned to not use synthetic for 6 to 9 thousand miles because the engine builder that did my machining said 'it's just too damn slippery'. He told me to wait until everything was good and broke in and I was sure that the lifters were turning the way they should.

Stephen

 

[falcon fanatic]

I'll do some exhaust port matching while I wait. I have a 22,000 RPM Die Grinder. I used a metal bit before. Is there a reason to use stones instead? Are stones easier to control?

Stones are pretty hard to work with in cast iron. They tend to bounce around, and they get fouled easily. Your best bet is sandpaper rolls which come in assortment kits such as those produced by standard arbrasives. Look here: http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part ... toview=sku

Besides the exhaust, you'll get your biggest bang inside the valve pocket, and in particular by smoothing out the short radius turn of the runner (the bottom turn, not the top). The Standard Abrasives kit comes with some detailed instructions with great illustrations.

 

[Lazy JW]

.....

I was also warned to not use synthetic for 6 to 9 thousand miles because the engine builder that did my machining said 'it's just too damn slippery'.....

And the old wife's tales just live on forever :roll:

The only valid reason to not use synthetic oil for break-in is that it costs more money and you should change it fairly soon so it just wastes money. Lots of brand new cars come from the factory with synthetic right from the get-go. Their manufacturing procedures happen to be vastly cleaner than the average rebuild shop so they don't really need the early oil change just to get rid of the swarf.

Synthetic motor oils have two primary advantages: #1. They perform better in temperature extremes (hot and cold) #2. They last longer before degrading.

The myth that synthetic oil is somehow "slicker" is just that, a myth. The evidence from fleets that have compared fuel economy results between synthetic and conventional oils simply puts the lie to this. Switching from a 30w to a 20w DOES make a difference, albeit a fairly small one; it matters not one whit if it be conventional or synthetic.

BTW, I did not say that ZDDP wasn't needed. I was referring to the comment that synthetic oils do not have it; Rotella RTS has it, as do others.
Joe

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Check this out: http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0702_pitstop_zinc_oil_additive/index.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/index.html

The Gibbs organization is reported to have achieved horsepower gains by engineering their own oils. Now they're acually selling them. http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/trainingcenter/zincdetergent.html

The angle on detergency vs. Zinc is very interesting. I, too, have seen reports on New York City cabs being tested with Synthetic and Conventional Oils. The testers (IIRC, Consumer Reports) found no differnce in wear. However, when I switched to a full Synthetic, I found I had developed leaks around the head gasket and valve cover gasket. I suspect that was from higher detergent action. I also suspect that my long trips at sustained high speeds (10% above speed limts) could have caused damage to my camshaft. I'll know more when I pull it out.

 

[Explorer]

The old style flat tappet cams need the zinc to keep from wiping the cam. New vehicles do not need it. The gov. lowered the zinc levels allowed due to the fact it screws up catalytic converters. Valvoline Racing oil is about the easiest to find with proper zinc levels. Brad Penn is another good one. The old standby Rotella has even dropped their zinc levels. You will wipe a new cam without it. It only took one time to convince me.

 

[jamyers]

...I'll do some exhaust port matching while I wait. I have a 22,000 RPM Die Grinder. I used a metal bit before. Is there a reason to use stones instead? Are stones easier to control?...

When I ported my Buick heads, I tried stones, sanding bits, steel burrs, and carbide burrs. By far the easiest to use was the Carbide burr - but it can also remove material faster than anything else, so take it easy until you get the feel of it.

At any rate, I'd recommend using a carbide burr, something like a 3/8" round-nose, for 95% of the work, then switching to the sandpaper-rolls for the last clean-up and/or any polishing you want to do (polish the exhaust side only).