DSII with load o matic carb?

edgewood bronco

Well-known member
I'm getting conflicting information on the web. I'm trying to figure out if I can simply run my DSII ignition upgrade with the load o matic carb using manifold vacuum. I'm hoping to not have to find a new carb.
thanks!
 
you can do it that way if you choose. thats how many engines were set up in the old days.
 
Going to manifold vacuum works sometimes, depending on the distributor. The vacuum canister sometimes delivers far too much advance to allow the engine to idle properly in many cases when set up that way so people retard the timing to get a good idle and end up with poor cruise or WOT performance. Tuning is the key. If you want to try manifold vacuum, the way I would set it up is this:

First, you'll need a dial back timing light or a mark on the damper at the 33-34 degree mark.

Next, plug the vacuum port on the carb. Then, unplug the vacuum line to the distributor.

Start the engine and bring the rpm up to 3200-3500 rpm. Using the dial back timing light or your 33-34 degree mark, set the distributor to that point. This way you know for sure you have proper timing at higher engine speeds.

Bring the engine back down to idle speed. When you check the timing it should be in the 8-12 degree range depending on your distributor.

Now plug in the manifold vacuum to the distributor. The advance will probably jump 10 to 12 degrees, maybe more depending on the canister. The idle speed will also increase. Do not move the distributor yet.

Now reset the idle speed. This would be a good time to adjust the mixture. Check the advance. At idle the timing light should be showing as much as 20-22 degrees of advance. If the engine is idling happy, you're good. If not, you need to try to adjust the vacuum canister.

Don't retard the timing to try to get a good idle with the manifold vacuum attached. If you do, what happens is, as soon as you tip into the throttle, your advance retards too far and the engine bogs. Also, at WOT at higher speeds you won't have as much advance as you need.

Your cranking advance should still be the 8-10 degrees you observed without vacuum, but if the starter is struggling, you can retard a couple of degrees to ease that, but be aware that you lose the equivalent at higher speeds.
 
edgewood bronco":2n6i2u90 said:
Thanks! I'll give this a try. Are the vacuum advance diaphragms tunable?

some are. you can tell the tunable ones in stock form by the fact that the vacuum nipple can be removed. there is a spring and a limiter in the can. aftermarket vacuum cans are adjustable also, crane has one that adjusts with an allen screw.
 
You can try Manifold vac , But I wouldn't , I would just plug it till you get a carb that has a ported Vac source available , have the dist recurved , Vac adv ( if set up correctly ) is a MPG feature , NOT necessary for performance
 
Hmmm. Well, I've got it running. I'm not yet ready to put this one in the success category.

Somehow I've got it hot-wired: It doesn't die when I turn the ignition switch in the dashboard off.

Here's what I have done:
I took a wire off the back of the ignition switch (the threaded post), then connected that to the red wire on the coil. (the only option there, the green wire ties into the DSII harness).
Next, using the two-pigtail wire from the ignition module (and referring to the colors that come OUT OF THE MODULE, not the colors of the male side of the harness, because they're swapped) I connected the red wire to that same wire off the back of the ignition switch. I tried starting it at that point and it almost would, but not quite. So, I connected the white wire to the "I" terminal of the starter solenoid.
I had ignition!
I left the original brown wire from the "I" side of the solenoid disconnected, and also disconnected the fusible link under the dash from the ignition switch, which can apparently fry wiring harnesses and the vehicles they reside in (from the classic inlines tech page on this swap).

It looks like there's still a need for a fusible link or other type of resistor to protect the coil after startup, and I am wondering if I can re-wire the fusible link that's already in the harness to fill that role.

How much voltage is supposed to be getting to the coil when the engine is running?

The advance is confusing me, too. When I set it to 34 with the engine revved, and then let it off to idle, it's at about 30 degrees. Seems like I've got some kind of crazy mechanical advance going on (or something's not right in there).
When I plug the vacuum back in, it's up to 50.

What to do the stickers on the vacuum modules mean? The one that's on the engine says 'EAT.' I have another that says 'FAN. ' I assume these are different amounts of advance?

Thanks for all the help I'm getting. Please keep it up.
 
I think you have a mechanical advance that's not working properly. Either the springs are too soft, too stiff or something is broken, worn, or binding.

Depending on the year and application, most of these distributors are set to deliver between 20-30 degrees of mechanical advance. If the springs are broken, missing or too soft, most of the advance comes in immediately and you'll see little or no difference between idle and 3000 rpm. if the springs are too stiff, again, there's little difference between idle and 3000 rpm because the weights can't overcome the springs. If the springs broke, the bushings wore out, or it got rusted shut, there's going to be little difference between idle and 3000.

Unfortunately you'll need to pull it apart to check it out.
 
Thanks, Jack.
The springs seemed really heavy when I had it apart to clean it. Everything moved freely. The springs were both the same size - looked like the same gauge wire and each had the same number of coils. I've got another dizzy that I'll pull apart and take a look at the springs.
I bought the recurve kit 925D but didn't put it in yet because when I pulled one off and replaced it, the other had no tension across it, and I couldn't see how I wanted to bend the tang another 3/32 towards the center and really make a lot of slop in there. I decided that I'd better see how it did without changing another variable.
That'll be my project tonight.
Thanks.
Andy
 
I'll be traveling for a bit, so probably won't get to this for a bit, but I certainly will let yous know when I have some news to report.
 
Well, I'm pleased to report the old bronco is running better than it ever has. After my initial blunders below, I got it wired correctly and had no noticeable advance. I pulled the dizzy and made sure it was all free and lubed up, etc, and changed the springs to some lighter springs out of another DSII Dizzy. That helped. I played with the advance and the carb and it was a bit better. I decided I'd finally re-curve it like the CI article and put in the lighter spring (I was able to do this without pulling the dizzy this time - I was getting pretty familiar with the thing). Much better!
I still had an issue of it not starting well when it was hot, but I finally got out a non-load-o-matic carb and cleaned it up and made sure it was functioning properly. I took it on the usual test drive, and found that although I couldn't accelerate up a long grade, I wasn't bottoming out at 30 mph at the top of the hill either. So far it's been starting hot also.
I'd leave it as it but the plugs get gummed up real fast, and I'm adding quite a bit of oil (quart every ca. 300 miles). I should never have to change oil at that rate, but would like to not have to worry about it.

So... I tore down a 200 today and will get the short block to the shop next week. waiting for porting supplies and I'll start on a 78 granada head.

In the meantime, It's my friday driver and I'm enjoying it!
 
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