Eaton m90 pulley question

67chrrybucket

Well-known member
I got a 64 200 engine im using a eaton m90 supercharger i would like to keep the double v belt pulleys i have 2 questions what size pulley should i use to get 7-8 psi at 5500 rpm? and has any one done this and where do i get double v belt pulleys for an eaton m90 and my waterpump and alt etc thanks for the help :beer: :beer: 8)
 
If anyone has an answer I'd love to hear it too. I am doing the same thing and I was assuming I was goign to have to take the grooved belt pulley that came with the blower and get it turned on a lathe into a twin V belt pulley.
 
If you want to V-belt, go for it.


Broncitis":2x8g4mct said:
I think you could get by with a two groove pulley easily and have one made easily, the hard part is if you come right off the crank you will need a 8.75 crank pulley and a 3.8 pulley on the blower to get about 6-7 psi and a 3.4 pulley to pull about 9-10 psi, which will make all other components spin way faster than stock, water pump, power steering, alternator, etc, if you start getting into the really small pulleys on the blower is where the v belts won't flex as well around the pully as a serpentine, on the m90 if I remember correctly once you get down around a 2.9 pulley you have to machine the snout down on the m90 to get the pulley on. All figures based on m90. If you accomplish this, you will not regret having done it, the v8's can't touch you through the first two gears, but they catch me at the end.
Wot he said^^^^


That is the only 200 cube for M90 answer. In that he gave target boost at 5000 rpm, target ratio, target sizes, everything. And he told us not to stretch the overdrive relationship past those limits. Eatons have to be massively over driven to work on any car, and that pushes the bending and flexural stress of any v belt to the maxiumum. A 6 rib belt would widdle all over it and never slip. But that is the answer above.

Problem is that you can't just use the stock 1978-1983 Fox set up using two 11a1195 V belts, the stock 6" Fox Balancer, the stock alternator pulley, and the stock 5 3/4 York, Tecumseh/Motorcarft A/C pulley size to drive the M90. You'll have next to no boost at a 1.04:1 ratio with that blower. That would be slightly over driven ratio as the standard Fox 200 balancer is about 6" outside diameter. The Water pump pulley is about 6.5". Under that senario, no boost, and ancillaries happy to survive as normal.

When you use an 8.75" balancer, you then have to overdrive the water pump and alternator, and then go to a 3.4" pulley. So its all a balancing act. Then you have to package it without anything colliding. Since you can't go below 3.4" and have the belts live, then you can't combine, say, a 2.9" pulley with a 6" crank balancer either. 2.6:1 is the higest ratio for 10 psi at 5000 rpm with an M90.


Normally, when one uses the smaller replacment 3G alternator, they swap out the stock 6 rib serepentine belt, and instead find an earlier 2 V belt arrangment like JackFish did.

See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62869&hilit=3g+swap
If you first do the Four Eye Ford forum 3G swap he listed, you just use the stock Grand Marquis verson

Then use the Australian 1993 OHC 6 rib harmonic balancer, which bolts right on any 200, and then find the right length replacement serp belt.

Mike showes the standard pullies he would like to sell for a kit, but its 200 specific, and that may mean some Fox problems, with their different water pump length. If you are using an Ogura SC12 or 14, it can go where the old York Tecumseh/Motorcarft A/C unit sat in standard late 200 cube installations...the passenger side. An M9O might fit if you can make it suit the Broncitis strictures. Ford did lots of funny stuff over the years with a/c units, some were dealer options which sat the unit on the drivers side, v8 style. Some 250's had nice big Fridadaire units, which have good space set asside for an M90.

If you are M90 on the drivers side or passenger side, you just have to follow the Broncitis set up in his SC3300 Classic Inlines EFI Early Bronco.

In his post quoted above , he gave the right pulley sizes.

Baldrick eliminated the whole water pump, used the Davis Craig remote water pump items, and with the stock easy to get 6 rib belt, your dough was bread.
 
so it seems to me with talking to broncitis and baldrick and jackfish that if your on a budget (like me) the best thing might be to do the 3g alt swap using a reg fan not an electric fan keeping the 2 v belt pulleys to run my water pump fan and alternator and using an 8 rib adapter from asp to run the supercharger so as to get the proper ratios and drives for all items
 
67chrrybucket":1hhq9c9z said:
so it seems to me with talking to broncitis and baldrick and jackfish that if your on a budget (like me) the best thing might be to do the 3g alt swap using a reg fan not an electric fan keeping the 2 v belt pulleys to run my water pump fan and alternator and using an 8 rib adapter from asp to run the supercharger so as to get the proper ratios and drives for all items


Yes. A point noted many times is that a cheaper replacement alternator can allow you to upgrade to other components to suit. The Aussie harmonic balancer would be my choice, just like Baldrick runs, even if you are on a budget. The water pump should be removed, and you should try and find a used EWP or Mr Gasket electric and run the stock M90 pulley with the components Balrick used. Back in the day, the 200 Ford Model A had a thermosyphon system for cooling. There are options for sorting out the cooling system without too much cost, because the remachining and reworking of pulleys is very expensive even when you don't have a steering and a water pump to contend with.

The Aussie balancer is cheap, and allows you to go Explorer EDIS and a bigger M112 rather than an M90. You can remover the distributor and gain another 22 cubes of blower with the length liberated.

Keep planning, and do some networking. The M90 is too small, but it'll work and give over 230 hp but under 290 hp before heat reduces power and increases detonation potential. My experience has been an 85 cubic inch SC14 Ogura (Toyota Corona 2.0 Super Charger), wired into the A/c pulley of a 231 cubic inch GM 3800. Power went from a port injected 177 to 230 hp with no injection or ecm changes, just the flick of the a/c switch and a fuel presure bump. Without an intercooler, and with 5 cubic inches more on a 200, you'd safely get 230 with the right m90 induction.

You need to have a think about budget, and price out each option you consider viable. I personally think an electric water pump will save you megabucks. There have been many, many cross flow supercharged I6's about on the 'net since I started looking in 2001; I started out on my supercharged 'I'm gonna blow my budget' post since then. Basically, an M series Eaton spins fast, and needs something more advanced than V belts to maintain tenson over the chargers pulley. You can use the stock fan; the water pump can be gutted and go anywhere, and that allows you more freedom. Thermo fans never provide the required wind rush on an iron blocked Ford six. You can use them, but if your eeking out every horse power, you'll need to start with too much wind, andthen back off. On an I6, space is at a premium.

I recomend Balrick and broncitis for well planned set ups. Copy one, price it out, and check budget. Don't be concerned about an up front capital cost, becuase the more you plan, the better the result.
 
balldrick":b4j43tin said:
what exactly did you do for the harmonic balancer, Is it a one off thing, sourced from another engine?
The harmonic balancer is of a EF Falcon 6 cylinder and goes straight on the early engines, its about a kilo heavier than the standard one which would help balance things out, Im also running the EF crank which is a 12 counter weight crank, should help with revvsss !


The stock EF/EL/XH Falcon balancer fits all 144/170/188/200/221/250 Aussie and US 200 cube OHV and all 3.2/3.9/4.0 OHC Fords but not US 250 engines.

Balldrick used 6.85 crank pulley and 3.75" blower pulley, then dropped down to an approx 2.63" pulley, and without a tensioner and only the stock EF idler gear, he gets m90 slippage on startup. So you'll need a tensioner positioned like on the 2.8 Cologne V6 or early aftermarket York/Tecumseh a/c unit for 200's, but of the type used on the Aussie and US i6', v6's and V8'S. IIRC, on ballricks ride, it was under 6 psi with the 3.75", and over 7 psi with the 2.63" at 5000 rpm and the M90 on the 255 cube engine.

The Aussie 250 has a US 1963-1983 200/3.3 size crank snout, they never changed. His engine is 1.572-1.577" taller on the block deck compared to the US 200.9.38" vs 7.803 -7.808" for every US 144/170/200.

Harmonic balancer Diameter went up from the stock 5.85 or 6" to 6.85" in 1968 with the 8.425" deck 188/221. Serpentine belt hit town in October 1993 with the EF Falcon, a new E series shell rear drive Ford, basically a special X-shell with the front reworked to use the similar, but not the same 1988 Thunderbird style front end, (although an E Falcon its not a U or S-shell).

I am a member of Ford Mods, an excellent and totally awesome Aussie Ford site. The guys there know there stuff.

From http://www.fordmods.com/ford-4l-and-6-c ... 13484.html

The stock EF/EL Falcon belt is 6 rib and is 6PK2370. The XH ute, a hangover from the leaf spung X-shell Falcon/Mustang/Maverick/Granada chassisis has either 6PK2405 or 6PK2505 with its 4.0 liter engine. For an M90, it all depends what type of pulley system you use as to the length.

The belts are around in 10 mm increments. The pulleys have belt ribs, So 6 rib for 6 rib polyrib belt.
See
http://www.dayco.com.au/products.aspx?G=910&P=1512

Stock set up was this

file.php
 
Ok so then i wold have to look for a 6 rib pulley for the m90? i live in the united states so i guess i would have to order that balancer from australia?
 
A junked EF or EL goes for 800 bucks.

You don't have to buy new. You can use 'used' 4.0 balancers...they don't leak, and are not likely to need any work. If you like, I can supply two.
And if your M90 has got the SC3800 Tbird pulley, or the one you've got is a 7 or 8 rib item, a six rib belt will still fit.

Look sideways at what every other garage tech GM, Honda and Ford guys are doing..

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=105743

All this is fairly basic stuff. You might need to file down the alloy timing boss used on the later Fox engine block, and space things in or out to suit, but the 4.0 balancer is really darned good, with a lot of dampening.

Doesn't every other non SC 3800 Tbird Eaton M90 come with just 6 ribs, when its from a 4.6 Ford or GM3800?
For 75 bucks, stock replacement for the M90 Saleen 4.6 Supercharger is this Six Rib Keyed Pulleys Fits '96-'03 4.6L Ford Mustang Saleen I, II, & III.Available in 1.9", 2.0", 2.1", 2.2", 2.3", 2.4", 2.5", 2.6", 2.7", 2.8", 2.9", 3.0", 3.1", 3.2", and 3.3" pulley sizes. Replaces Stock 6 rib Pulley (EA85882)

or GM Series II & III 6 Rib Pulley Fits GM 3.8L V6 Supercharged Vehicles Available in 3.0", 3.2", and 3.4" pulley sizes.


Do some searching to answer your questions, like http://www.pulleyboys.com/store/home.ph ... n=0&page=1

or http://www.3800pro.com/forum/supercharg ... -help.html

I encourgage you to have fun working, planning , getting knowledge and finally getting wise with these set ups. They aren't expensive if you listen to those who have done them before.
 
If your really keen to go back to twin v belts, check out Mustangaroo's. But a Paxton is a nice low reving blower, not a high cylcer like an M90 or 112

Mustangaroo":xlvp27dt said:

The above picture is the Paxton SN/89 mounted on the passagers side of my 1968 Mustang, I've had this setup for about five years, I had to relocate the battery to the trunk for the above installation. I am currently working on a drivers side install using the power steering mount. Sorry the engine bay is so dirty but this has been a daily driver for almost five years, I recently got a new H3 Hummer to replace the Mustang as my daily driver, hence I now can try something new.
8)


And the Broncitus album

http://s717.photobucket.com/albums/ww17 ... 3QQtppZZ16

 
The Paxton SN 89 is a good unit for a nice 312 with 4-bbl, or a Fox 5.0, but that Mc Culloch based unit is old and needs an armload of follow-up to make it reliable. It spins to create mid to high end power, so its okay on an I6, but its not like a typical rootes supercharged engine.

These days, Paxton make all the pulleys and new centrifugal Innova superchargers under the Paxton brand...such an amazing kit, but they don't make off idle grunt like the even the basic M62's and M90's.
 
well i have decided to go the paxton style way i like the double v belt pulley it has a more period look ease of instalation and low boost i dont want crazy boost 6-8 psi seems bout right. i will be running a 2 barrel autolite 424cfm not sure how to modify carb yet but i am gona take a suggestion from broncitis and run e85 for maximum power
 
I'll have to have a look at what pulley is on my Eaton. I think its 3.?? I'm not looking for much boost. If I can get a reliable 5psi to make up for the lousy intake manifold design I'll be happy. I'm not going down this road until after the next 24 Hours of Lemons race in early December.
 
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