All Small Six Engine id help please

[doublehfarm]

I need help with this engine. I think it to be a 200 ( 5 freeze plugs) but it looks like it is a 3 bolt starter which i thought was a 170??. I just looked at my 170 and it has 2 bolt starter. Im wanting to bolt this up to my 3 sp transmission on early bronco. Hoping it would be a simple bolt it but this clutch/flywheel /bellhousing situation is confusing. What the experts say? Thanks

 

[drag-200stang]

I think that it is a 200 98% also, but for 100% I would have to measure the bore and stroke some how.
It has both patterns so you can just make it like what you have by moving the dowel pins if you have the flat fly wheel, use the block plate, flywheel, bell housing and starter that you have.
The starter is more a bell housing be it a manual or auto thing not so much engine size..

 

[bubba22349]

X2 yes it's really simple since the engine pictured had an auto trans bolted on to it then it will also use a three bolt type starter. The engines that use a manual trans will use a two bolt starter. Good luck

 

[powerband]

I was surprised that the 200 in a 76 Comet has a C4 auto' and the small bellhouse pattern used on earliest Fordomatic 2 spd and 'peanut' 3 spd. The 76 also has the 3 bolt starter.

D5DE 200

.



Your engine appears to be a 200 , the Serial numbers will be on starter location . The round-ish' intake log rather than flat top probably means it's mid to late 60's - Engine # will confirm series but not year of mfg. .

C6DE 200:
.






I've had numerous Ford small block six's and never found a 5 frz plug 170. Maybe a western DSO thing?.
Had an oddball 200 that had ONLY small bellhouse pattern. I tried to give it away for few years , then used a BFH.

C5DE R.I.P.


have fun

 

[powerband]

m wanting to bolt this up to my 3 sp transmission on early bronco. Hoping it would be a simple bolt it but this clutch/flywheel /bellhousing situation is confusing. What the experts say? Thanks

AFAIK - the 'DUAL DRILLED bellhouse pattern will enable any small block six tranny used to be bolted on. The Bronco probably has the 4WD version of the 3.03 Toploader with' big pattern' BH that your block can use with original block plate - FW Starter - clutch etc. ... .

'Dual drilled block

.

Small pattern 3 spd

.


large pattern 3 spd



PS easy upgrade is Diaphragm clutch used on late 70's 200's like Granada and Fairmouse

'71 Maverick 170 (C9DE) with diaphragm clutch


have fun

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, as mentioned, the engine will be a direct bolt in, with the Bronco oil pan, pick up tube and special cap bolt, spacer plate and hopefully the common flywheel with 9" clutch. The oddball 9 3/8" clutch is impossible to find. Don't forget a pilot bearing.
Are you going to rebuild the engine? Post what you find when you pull the oil pan.
Good luck

 

[bubba22349]

I was surprised that the 200 in a 76 Comet has a C4 auto' and the small bellhouse pattern used on earliest Fordomatic 2 spd and 'peanut' 3 spd. The 76 also has the 3 bolt starter.

D5DE 200

.



Your engine appears to be a 200 , the Serial numbers will be on starter location . The round-ish' intake log rather than flat top probably means it's mid to late 60's - Engine # will confirm series but not year of mfg. .

C6DE 200:
.






I've had numerous Ford small block six's and never found a 5 frz plug 170. Maybe a western DSO thing?.
Had an oddball 200 that had ONLY small bellhouse pattern. I tried to give it away for few years , then used a BFH.

C5DE R.I.P.


have fun

It's no longer a mystery all of the Ford Six Engine Blocks made from 1960 to 1965 from the 144's, 170's, or even the first 2 1/2 years of the 200 Six's will all only have the single small bell housing bolt pattern. Also all of the two speed Ford O Matic' or the 3 speed C4's used on all small Ford Six's from a 144, 170, or all the years of the 200 Six up until 1981 will all use that same small size bell housing bolt pattern. I now also know that the 1982 & 1983 200 Six engines that were originally produced for use with a Manual Transmission are also a High Mount Starter and will still use those same 2 Bolt Starters just like all the earlier Manual Transmission Six's.

Thanks to "Drag-200Stang" for the detailed pictures we also now know that the at least some of the 1982 200 Six Blocks Ford made had the rare Big Bell Housing (2/3 of the SBF V8 6 Bolt Bell) these were used with the new for 1982 C5 Auto Transmissions. Turns out that your odd ball 1965 200 block is just like every other 1965 200 block it and the first 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 200 Six Blocks were only made, drilled and tapped for fitting up to the small bolt pattern bell housings so any year Falcon / Comet Ford O Matic, or C4 trans uses that same standard small bell housing bolt pattern. Because of that any C4 Trans that is a case fill Type Trans when used with the small six bell housing bolted on is then able to bolt up to any of these Small Six Engines Blocks.

The 1966 200 small six blocks were the first year that had the duel drilled and tapped bolt patterns. The biggest advantage of the 1966 up duel pattern 200 blocks is for using them with a Manual transmission giving the ability to use the larger flat flywheel, with its matching bigger 9 inch clutch assembly, and the the bigger bolt pattern bell housing in place of the older smaller 8 1/2 inch clutch, stepped flywheel, and the small bolt pattern bell housing used in 1960 to 1965 and also in some of the 1966 year models such as the Mustang's. In another note for those using one of the bigger 250 six's from 1969 to 1983 these all use the same 6 bolt bell housing as the SBF V8's like a late 1965 1/2 289, 302, 5.0, 351 W & C's. Best of luck

 

[Az62van]

It's no longer a mystery all of the Ford Six Engine Blocks made from 1960 to 1965 from the 144's, 170's, or even the first 2 1/2 years of the 200 Six's will all only have the single small bell housing bolt pattern. Also all of the two speed Ford O Matic' or the 3 speed C4's used on all small Ford Six's from a 144, 170, or all the years of the 200 Six up until 1981 will all use that same small size bell housing bolt pattern. I now also know that the 1982 & 1983 200 Six engines that were originally produced for use with a Manual Transmission are also a High Mount Starter and will still use those same 2 Bolt Starters just like all the earlier Manual Transmission Six's.

Thanks to "Drag-200Stang" for the detailed pictures we also now know that the at least some of the 1982 200 Six Blocks Ford made had the rare Big Bell Housing (2/3 of the SBF V8 6 Bolt Bell) these were used with the new for 1982 C5 Auto Transmissions. Turns out that your odd ball 1965 200 block is just like every other 1965 200 block it and the first 1963 1/2 to 1964 1/2 200 Six Blocks were only made, drilled and tapped for fitting up to the small bolt pattern bell housings so any year Falcon / Comet Ford O Matic, or C4 trans uses that same standard small bell housing bolt pattern. Because of that any C4 Trans that is a case fill Type Trans when used with the small six bell housing bolted on is then able to bolt up to any of these Small Six Engines Blocks.

The 1966 200 small six blocks were the first year that had the duel drilled and tapped bolt patterns. The biggest advantage of the 1966 up duel pattern 200 blocks is for using them with a Manual transmission giving the ability to use the larger flat flywheel, with its matching bigger 9 inch clutch assembly, and the the bigger bolt pattern bell housing in place of the older smaller 8 1/2 inch clutch, stepped flywheel, and the small bolt pattern bell housing used in 1960 to 1965 and also in some of the 1966 year models such as the Mustang's. In another note for those using one of the bigger 250 six's from 1969 to 1983 these all use the same 6 bolt bell housing as the SBF V8's like a late 1965 1/2 289, 302, 5.0, 351 W & C's. Best of luck

I’m pulling out a 170 with I believe a c3 tranny and replacing the engine with a 250 that had a automatic tranny - question is will I be able to use the bell housing from the 170 / c3 tranny - thank you

 

[bubba22349]

Hi AZ62van, and welcome to the Ford Six Forum! It's not likely that you have a C3 on a 170 engine but maybe someone swapped one onto the 170. You can check out the Blocks Casting / Design Numbers to get an idea of its year model. First thing does your Auto Trans have a bolt on Bell Housing or is it a one piece front Case and Bell Housing? All 170's from 1961 to 1972 that were used with an Auto trans (usually either a Ford O Matic 2 Speed to 1964 or the later C4 3 Speed starting in 1965) but they both would of used only the small Bell Housing Bolt Pattern, so to answer your first question these Bell Housing will not fit onto a 250 Six. Now if it really is a C3 Trans with a removeable Bell Housing that would still not be a good swap onto a 250 Six they are very weak transmissions and a 250 has lots more Torque than a 170 so you need a Minimum of a C4 Trans the V8 C4's are the Strongest. All the 250 Six's will have the very same 6 Bolt Pattern Bell Housing as is used on most of the SBF V8's I.E. the late 1965 up 289, all 302, 5.0's, all 351 W or C's, only the Case Fill C4's with a bolt on Bell Housing can be changed over to use with a 6 bolt SBF Bell Housing. You would also need the right, 6 bolt Block Spacer Plate, the Flex Plate, The bigger Torque Convertor, and the correct Starter. Hope that is of some help to you, good luck on your swap.