Firing order
- Thread starter CrashBob
- Start date
bigcatchdaniel555
Well-known member
the firing order is stamped oon the head i believe its something like 153... i just copied the old firing order from the old dizzy cap which had 1,5,3 ggoing counter clockwise my new dizzycap came with #1 stamped on one then i just went counter clockwise to do the timing i set the dizzy about where the old one was and adjusted it to 14 degrees from there with a light.
james singleton
Well-known member
According to my manual the timing should be 6 degrees before- top-dead-center (6 BTDC) for a manual transmission, and the firing order should be 1,5,3,6,2,4 ! The distributor rotation should be: Clockwise! Jim
If you haven't yet removed the old unit, try this:
Remove the plugs and disconnect your battery positive lead. Now carefully turn the motor by hand until the damper's timing pointer lines up with the "12" mark on the front (timing) cover scale.
Check that the front spark plug's lead - this is plug #1 - has the rotor pointing at its position on the distributor cap. If it is pointing exactly the wrong way, rotate the damper a whole turn, and check again - should be perfect this time. Now, put the plugs back in and remove the distributor. Do not turn the motor again until you have the new ignition slid in.
When installing the Duraspark, I suggest you swap the original drive gear onto it. But! Between removing the old and fitting the new, check the distributor position so that there is room to twist it for fine adjustment on the timing. Remember to ensure the rotor is pointing directly at a cap terminal when you do this check. It'll be your new #1 plug terminal. Make a "match mark" on both the block and distributor for later use.
Fit the original distributor driven gear, and carefully install the new unit. You may have to marginally wobble the damper side to side for correct alignment of the oil pump drive shaft into the distributor. Don't force it at all; if it won't slide snugly home there is a problem.
Clamp down with the mtach mark noted, and the rotor button pointing at designated #1 terminal. Once the wiring's complete, it should be ready to fire.
Regards, Adam.
Remove the plugs and disconnect your battery positive lead. Now carefully turn the motor by hand until the damper's timing pointer lines up with the "12" mark on the front (timing) cover scale.
Check that the front spark plug's lead - this is plug #1 - has the rotor pointing at its position on the distributor cap. If it is pointing exactly the wrong way, rotate the damper a whole turn, and check again - should be perfect this time. Now, put the plugs back in and remove the distributor. Do not turn the motor again until you have the new ignition slid in.
When installing the Duraspark, I suggest you swap the original drive gear onto it. But! Between removing the old and fitting the new, check the distributor position so that there is room to twist it for fine adjustment on the timing. Remember to ensure the rotor is pointing directly at a cap terminal when you do this check. It'll be your new #1 plug terminal. Make a "match mark" on both the block and distributor for later use.
Fit the original distributor driven gear, and carefully install the new unit. You may have to marginally wobble the damper side to side for correct alignment of the oil pump drive shaft into the distributor. Don't force it at all; if it won't slide snugly home there is a problem.
Clamp down with the mtach mark noted, and the rotor button pointing at designated #1 terminal. Once the wiring's complete, it should be ready to fire.
Regards, Adam.
Adam, i think he needs to inspect the driven gear on the old distributor for scoring or wear??
This gear on a stock distributor is a press fit & also held by a .125 pin.
This could be more than this member can handle. You need a press & trying to line up the old gear if in good condition???? with the shaft hole could be a monster.
I agree with you that the gear supplied with these cardone distributors is either sand blasted or glass beaded.
Look at this gear & it is pocked marked from the blasting all over, including the critical gear contact area.
These gears that come on the remanufactured distributors are junk.
If the old gear on the original distributor is not scored, definately use it, even if you have to take it to a shop with a press & can handle the press fit.
Performance distributors turns down the shaft so the gear is a slip fit but you need to install a larger roll pin cause since there is no press fit all the force needed to turn the oil pump is placed on the roll pin.
Performance distributors needs to clean up their act & supply a new gear & a new vacuum advance unit for the outragious price they charge for just curving the unit & installing a full lenght bushing.
They made good by shipping a new gear & vacuum can, because i complained. Good luck on your duraspark venture.
With all the crap i put up with i still like the duraspark with the MSD-6AL.
Have you fellows down under have had luck with the driven gear from crow cams??? Thanks any reply Adam would be appreciated.
I have also run their DUI on a small block chevy & it worked great & the unit was new not using a remaufactured stock unit like they do on their duraspark unit??????????? Your choice
This gear on a stock distributor is a press fit & also held by a .125 pin.
This could be more than this member can handle. You need a press & trying to line up the old gear if in good condition???? with the shaft hole could be a monster.
I agree with you that the gear supplied with these cardone distributors is either sand blasted or glass beaded.
Look at this gear & it is pocked marked from the blasting all over, including the critical gear contact area.
These gears that come on the remanufactured distributors are junk.
If the old gear on the original distributor is not scored, definately use it, even if you have to take it to a shop with a press & can handle the press fit.
Performance distributors turns down the shaft so the gear is a slip fit but you need to install a larger roll pin cause since there is no press fit all the force needed to turn the oil pump is placed on the roll pin.
Performance distributors needs to clean up their act & supply a new gear & a new vacuum advance unit for the outragious price they charge for just curving the unit & installing a full lenght bushing.
They made good by shipping a new gear & vacuum can, because i complained. Good luck on your duraspark venture.
With all the crap i put up with i still like the duraspark with the MSD-6AL.
Have you fellows down under have had luck with the driven gear from crow cams??? Thanks any reply Adam would be appreciated.
I have also run their DUI on a small block chevy & it worked great & the unit was new not using a remaufactured stock unit like they do on their duraspark unit??????????? Your choice
I'd assumed the driven gears on a DS-II were a light press fit, meaning the could be readily tapped off without resorting to a gear puller or hydraulic press and press plates. That's how our Aussie distributors are.
Roll pin shear - often you can infill the rollpin with a solid bit of wire, or a smaller rollpin. It adds stiffness and an extra failsafe measure.
With the original distributor gear I've never seen wear exceeding that of normal use (ie; light wear and polishing). Nor have I seen failure with a Crow gear, and can't remember hearing of one failing. However, I am all but convinced that some Ford "small six" aftermarket cam billets have an incorrect helix cut on them, and that is the culprit - not the aggressive cam grinds.
Until this is resolved, I will generally recommend a reground cam. This also has the benfit of supporting smaller industry, too.
Roll pin shear - often you can infill the rollpin with a solid bit of wire, or a smaller rollpin. It adds stiffness and an extra failsafe measure.
With the original distributor gear I've never seen wear exceeding that of normal use (ie; light wear and polishing). Nor have I seen failure with a Crow gear, and can't remember hearing of one failing. However, I am all but convinced that some Ford "small six" aftermarket cam billets have an incorrect helix cut on them, and that is the culprit - not the aggressive cam grinds.
Until this is resolved, I will generally recommend a reground cam. This also has the benfit of supporting smaller industry, too.
wsa111":3fglemuj said:
Thanks for the tip and your concern abouit my abilities
. As luck would have it, I am a journeyman machinist with a master's degree in metallurgy currently employed as a design engineer for a large aerospace firm. However, I am not a trained mechanic and didn't consider the potential for issues with the drive gear. I had one of our gear specialists inspect both gears and he concluded it wouldn't be worth the hassle to remove and replace the gear on the reman unit.
Why do you feel that the gears on reman units are junk? I agree that blasting can be used to disguise surface faults and wear patterns. Bead blasting is also used for stress relief under certain conditions.
I think this forum is one of the best and most responsive out there. Every member appears to be genuinely anxious to help with good tips and suggestions.
Keep up the good work,
CrashBob
I have removed gears on the old points units with a small hammer (deadblow) and installed the same. you are ALWAYS suposed to drill a new hole for the pin when installing a gear (try to install turned 90*)
I had to do this to build my TFI dizzy.
aftermarket gears on a rebuild can be of a questional type of alloy/heat treat.
I bought a new gear at napa to build my first TFI dizzy and it was $30. Some of those remans are only $70 COMPLETE. also you can have wear patterns setup that will be happy if you keep them the same.
I had to do this to build my TFI dizzy.
aftermarket gears on a rebuild can be of a questional type of alloy/heat treat.
I bought a new gear at napa to build my first TFI dizzy and it was $30. Some of those remans are only $70 COMPLETE. also you can have wear patterns setup that will be happy if you keep them the same.
Crashbob, since you work in design engineering do you hace access to a rockwell hardness tester using the C scale.
Could you compare the pock marked gear that was blasted compared to a new gear from napa, gp sorensen or there are other aftermaarket gears.
I feel these blasted gears, with god knows what, leaves sharp edged craters that eat away a good camshaft drive gears surface. Also the surface hardness probably has been removed.
It also removes the parkerized process applied to new gears the same as on camshaft lobes to prevent scuffing.
How do i know, i have had 2 distributors with these blasted gears score the camshaft drive gear.
Sorry to get away from the 153624 firing order post, but this is a critical problem.
Adam do you have the info on gears from crow cams??
Thanks Bill see attached photo
Could you compare the pock marked gear that was blasted compared to a new gear from napa, gp sorensen or there are other aftermaarket gears.
I feel these blasted gears, with god knows what, leaves sharp edged craters that eat away a good camshaft drive gears surface. Also the surface hardness probably has been removed.
It also removes the parkerized process applied to new gears the same as on camshaft lobes to prevent scuffing.
How do i know, i have had 2 distributors with these blasted gears score the camshaft drive gear.
Sorry to get away from the 153624 firing order post, but this is a critical problem.
Adam do you have the info on gears from crow cams??
Thanks Bill see attached photo
wsa111":1a80mjeo said:Crashbob, since you work in design engineering do you hace access to a rockwell hardness tester using the C scale.
Could you compare the pock marked gear that was blasted compared to a new gear from napa, gp sorensen or there are other aftermaarket gears.
I feel these blasted gears, with god knows what, leaves sharp edged craters that eat away a good camshaft drive gears surface. Also the surface hardness probably has been removed.
It also removes the parkerized process applied to new gears the same as on camshaft lobes to prevent scuffing.
How do i know, i have had 2 distributors with these blasted gears score the camshaft drive gear.
Sorry to get away from the 153624 firing order post, but this is a critical problem.
Adam do you have the info on gears from crow cams??
Thanks Bill see attached photo
Yes,
We have several hardness testers and a complete metalurgy lab. I about freaked when I looked at the photo you posted. Is that a gear from a reman? I wouldn't use that for a fishing weight.
Usually, a gear that has been case hardened will have .006-.010" case depth and in order to remove that you would use up quite a few bags of silica.
I will have to check the hardness as all we checked was surface finish and pressure face profile on the reman gear to check for a wear pattern. I'll get back to you.
Crashbob
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