Fuel pump shenanigans

[Luke64]

About a year and a half ago, while doing a break conversion and a few other upgrades and maintenance items, I bought a Napa fuel pump to replace my original and to have my original as a spare. The Napa pump actually did work, altho the arm that rides on the cam was so sloppy it wouldn’t pump enough to go past 40. Back on the original goes. Fast forward to a few months ago. I bought a carter fuel pump off of Dennis carpenter. What could be better than carter? Neither port would accept the correct thread. Called Dennis to verify the port size after I went to Napa and tried every fitting they made, metric or standard. Got it tapped to 1/8 28, fittings in, pump put on. Doesn’t pump. Disassembly of the pump reveals sideways check valves, epoxy all over them and just a overall lack of quality on assembly. Dennis carpenter sent me a replacement fuel pump, no issues at all. Took me awhile to put it on, (the truck recently went on a 615 mile trip, without a single issue) and I didn’t want to risk it. Same problem as before with the threads, only have to tap one this time tho, but it won’t pump at all. I’ve seen a lot of people having issues with carter. Made in USA and factory inspected and tested doesn’t mean what it used to. My question for you guys is, is it time to go to electric? This whole fiasco has been just to have a back up pump, Incase something like this did happen and I can’t get a pump. This is my daily driver vehicle. I’d love to hear from you guys, and to steer you away from carter fuel pumps. I should mention Dennis carpenter has been an amazing company to work with, and this is no fault of theirs.

 

[Bronctopia]

Long ago I came to the conclusion that ALL fuel pump diaphragms HATE the modern gasahol fuels, and only temporarily tolerate the EtOH free (but still oxygenated) ones.

Big beefy electric driven rollers that don't have to flex are just more durable.

For chainsaw carbs there is nothing but learning to rebuild those diaphragms in your sleep....

 

[PSIG]

I’ve seen a lot of people having issues with carter. Made in USA and factory inspected and tested doesn’t mean what it used to.

I wouldn't jump to blame Carter without more info that you probably can't get. It may (probably) be counterfeit. It is valid to warn others by your experience. Just a counter-viewpoint that I've had no issues with Carter. Probably the source (DC), that may be unaware. Obviously, none of these are real Carter.

It was only a couple years ago that it seemed impossible to find real NGK spark plugs. Everything from medical to aviation parts to your socks is potentially counterfeit today. Same deal with AC Delco parts. How sad. We don't make much here anymore, and you can't trust that it is when you buy it, as there are no Certificates Of Origin for car parts.

 

[Luke64]

Oh I don’t know how popular the market for counterfeit carter fuel pumps is came in a carter box, says made in America, looks like a carter. I definitely wouldn’t think Dennis carpenter would supply fuel pumps from anyone but directly from carter. I think it’s just the unfortunate reality now that you can’t get good quality parts, unless oem nos. In contact with Dennis carpenter (who sells Ford verified/certified parts) hoping that they’ll contact carter and we can come to a better conclusion

 

[DON]

You might try Holley, see if they have one for your application. I have had one on for 10-12 yrs, ethonal free gas, and no problems. It’s rebuild able too. Don’t know where it was made. I would have to look at the box that has the old one in it

 

[PSIG]

Oh I don’t know how popular the market for counterfeit carter fuel pumps is came in a carter box, says made in America, looks like a carter.

Very popular, and why I posted the link. That's how counterfeits look. Just informing, so reputations are not accidentally harmed with our willing participation.

I definitely wouldn’t think Dennis carpenter would supply fuel pumps from anyone but directly from carter.

Not knowingly, I presume. When airliner parts show up at airline facilities, you can bet they didn't know either. "Certified" is easily faked, they're good at it, and is only recently better-controlled in the electronics, aviation, medical and military fields. Not so much ours, as there is no means to verify any claims of source. Again, just informing so we don't mistakenly hurt friendly manufacturers or distributors with assumptions.

 

[Luke64]

Very popular, and why I posted the link. That's how counterfeits look. Just informing, so reputations are not accidentally harmed with our willing participation.

Not knowingly, I presume. When airliner parts show up at airline facilities, you can bet they didn't know either. "Certified" is easily faked, they're good at it, and is only recently better-controlled in the electronics, aviation, medical and military fields. Not so much ours, as there is no means to verify any claims of source. Again, just informing so we don't mistakenly hurt friendly manufacturers or distributors with assumptions.

Those don’t look or are trying to imitate a carter tho. I own two carter pumps, both of which are bad. This isn’t a $20 eBay job. I’m all for saving the reputation of a company when it’s deserving. I don’t want to argue, carter used to be good. I’m just relaying my information that I have to you. This isn’t a fake. I’ve bought many ac delco alternators from Napa, and they’ve gone ghost in a year. Not assuming those are fake either, just poor quality. Carter also outsources pumps from outside of the country. They didn’t used to do that.... just a hint that things are getting worse and not better. I appreciate your thoughts and will agree that there’s a lot of counterfeit things, just none that I’ve found with truck parts. I’ll add photos of the boxes and pumps tonight when I’m home

 

[DON]

You might try Holley, see if they have one for your application. I have had one on for 10-12 yrs, ethonal free gas, and no problems. It’s rebuild able too. Don’t know where it was made. I would have to look at the box that has the old one in it

No Holley available

 

[Luke64]

Well, I still believe it’s a real carter. I have since looked past the white sticker that DC put on, and you can read made in China. I guess the sticker is made in America that they put on there. Altho the customer service with Dennis carpenter has been good, let the pump be what it is. Don’t hide the made in China with a made in America a sticker. That’s quite deceitful in my opinion. You can hopefully see the epoxy on the check valves, and how they’re installed sideways. I haven’t gotten an email back yet, so tomorrow morning I’ll call DC and update you guys again.

Don, thank you for looking into the Holley! Times been quite sparce lately.

 

[Luke64]

I was able to get ahold of them today. Their answer was sometimes they’ll get parts in from other countries and if they do some assembly they’ll put the sticker on. I disagreed, that’s not the case with this situation. But the customer service reps arnt who to have this discussion with. My refunds on the way, where to go from here I’m not sure. It’s not easy to see, especially if you just glance at it and throw away the box.

 

[Frank]

View attachment 22311
I was able to get ahold of them today. Their answer was sometimes they’ll get parts in from other countries and if they do some assembly they’ll put the sticker on. I disagreed, that’s not the case with this situation. But the customer service reps arnt who to have this discussion with. My refunds on the way, where to go from here I’m not sure. It’s not easy to see, especially if you just glance at it and throw away the box.

Luke, I'm not making a suggestion, just FYI- I wanted to go electric pump on the recent 240 build. 63Sprint recommended this pump, which is in service stand-alone on the truck, so far very pleased. No anti-siphon valve, which lets fuel free flow forward, check valve blocks backflow. Since it free-flows, this could be added to a mechanical pump system inline as a standby or primer pump. Or remove the mechanical. USA made.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9807

 

[Luke64]

Luke, I'm not making a suggestion, just FYI- I wanted to go electric pump on the recent 240 build. 63Sprint recommended this pump, which is in service stand-alone on the truck, so far very pleased. No anti-siphon valve, which lets fuel free flow forward, check valve blocks backflow. Since it free-flows, this could be added to a mechanical pump system inline as a standby or primer pump. Or remove the mechanical. USA made.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9807

Thank you for the idea Frank! The ideas of an electric pump have gone thru my mind as it kinda feels like my only option right now. I can’t get a quality mechanical pump made for a 223, and the convenience of that sounds quite nice.

A last (I think) update on the situation. I called carter yesterday to see where the pumps are truly made. She said most of them are made in China. She also is sending me another fuel pump and wanted details on what was wrong and pictures. I truly hope that they will actually look into the quality issues. Fingers crossed.
Dennis carpenter; they also confirmed now, funnily, that they are made in China and that it’s hard to get parts made in America for some of the vehicles. I told them how it’s deceitful to put an American made Dennis carpenter sticker also conveniently directly over the Chinese sticker. Nothing about that pump is made in America and considering, like they said, a lot of their parts are made in China, it has no business being on there anyway. They said it must have been a mistake, twice in a row is some sort of Deja vu. But they’re going to make a note about the labels and it’s placement and I also, really hope that does work. They refunded me my money, the customer service has been good, and I’ll leave it at that.

 

[PSIG]

You can use any type of boost/lift pump (pulse, turbine, gerotor, etc) with a parallel one-way (check) valve for free-flow draw by the mechanical pump. I recall at least one of the manufacturers has a simple diagram of this. Two tees and a check valve.

Carter's version of a pump bypass:

 

[Frank]

You can use any type of boost/lift pump (pulse, turbine, gerotor, etc) with a parallel one-way (check) valve for free-flow draw by the mechanical pump. I recall at least one of the manufacturers has a simple diagram of this. Two tees and a check valve.

Carter's version of a pump bypass:

The advantage to the Facet pump- no additional plumbing needed, just put it in the single inlet line. The disadvantage is that the check valve holds fuel pressure after the engine is off, not ideal in the deep south. If it's used inline with the mechanical, this is a non-factor.

 

[PSIG]

Understood. My comment was to demonstrate you don't have to use a Facet pump. Any suitable pump, and if it can't free-flow when off, then with a simple bypass.