Headless 170 boat...where to go from here?

[64 inboard]

Well, I just got my boat out of storage this afternoon. I posted a bit last summer regarding my 170 powered- 1964 Correct Craft American Skier boat. It had not been running well at all. I found out thru this site that the block is a 63, and the head is a 73.

This afternoon, I decided to pull the head. It looks to have cracks in a few areas. The most obvious ones look to be on the intake, below the carb base..

There looks to be a crack on one of the exhaust ports, as seen in this pic...(lower L corner of left port in pic)..

Im also concerned about the black in the cylinders... kind of appears wet.

I have had a hard time getting the motor to run any temp....it rarely comes of of 100 degrees when on running on plane.

I do have a 200, that I wouldnt mind trying to rebuild and replace the 170 with. .just not sure how close it is as for interchanging?
Any thoughts where to go from here??

 

[Lazy JW]

Welcome Back!

That thing really, really needs to run at warmer temperature; I remember some discussion about temperature control in boats but cannot recall the details: however it's done, whatever it takes, get it warmed up. A properly set up 200 will really wake that boat up!
Have fun,
Joe

 

[Thad]

Does the engine have provision for a thermostat? If no housing for thermostat there are inline thermostat housing that could be installed the discharge side of the cooling water. Or maybe a flow restrictor washer.

 

[bookworm007]

What year is the 200 you want to swap in? As far as I know the 200 has the same bellhousing as the 170, but some things to think about is the 170 has a smaller distributor gear size than the 200 and the 200 will be slightly taller. Also by swapping to a 200 you get the advantage of its 7 main crank. Plus parts and blocks for the 200 are a bit easier to find.

 

[jamyers]

From what I recall, you might have a project ahead of you getting a thermostat in there, since the block is "backwards" (flywheel-forward) with the usual water outlet being at the lower end of the head.

On the other hand, swapping in any 200 block ought to be a bolt-in deal, since bellhousing patterns shouldn't matter. If the distributor fitting is an issue, you oughta be able to get a 200 dizzy and swap the 170 guts into it (I'd think).

What you'll have to look at is getting the nose of the crank drilled for the tranny oil passage, then tapped for the bolt that holds the trans input to the engine crank.

 

[64 inboard]

thanks guys... I think the 200's I have are 79 and 82 vintage. Right now Im leaning towards just getting one of those heads rebuilt and use on the 170 block. The engine does have a t.stat. and it is on the 'low' end of the block. I drill a 1/8" hole in them so they cant air lock. It calls for a 140 marine, but I have also tried a 160 car stat...no difference.

the motor only has an external "raw water' pump and I'm wondering if it has too much pressure and is actually forcing the t.stat spring open? I'm wondering about installing a 1" ball valve in the supply line going into the block, so I can throttle the pressure/supply down a bit.

As for the dizzy, it is a Mallory Marine unit (no vacuum), so I would like to keep it. Do the 200's run a different dizzy?

 

[fordconvert]

The normal car engine in boat fresh water cooling setup is has the regular water pump and a hose loop where the radiator would normally be. There is then an adapter that moves the T stat so it controls how much fresh (cold) water enters the circulation. The cold water intake has its own pump. Unused water or the hot water get dumped into the dual chamber exhaust manifold then mixes with the exhaust flow and gets spit out with the exhaust through the hull (cutouts) or through the prop on many I/O's. The reason for the dual chamber manifold is that they dont want any hot surfaces in an enclosed space where there could be fuel vapor.

 

[jamyers]

That's with a heat exchanger...older boats like this just pumped lake water through the manifold to warm it (and cool the manifold), then ran it through the block then out the exhaust. My '62 Chris-Craft 283 has no thermostats, restictors, or anything - usually runs around 140 degrees indicated.

Instead of a ball valve, I'd recommend a gate valve - they're better suited for regulating flow.

 

[64 inboard]

I just got the heads off of the donor 200 motors. One head is coded D8BE , the other is E0BE. Im hoping to take both sets to the machine shop later this week to have them checked. They both look similar as to the valves still setting high on the seats. Is there an advantage of rebuilding one of these heads over the other?

The cooling on this engine is just the raw water pump...no other pumps. I think a car water pump would mount where the short hose is sticking out of the block, just abaove the tranny in the pic below?

Any thoughts on what else to do to get operating temps up?

 

[JackFish]

What about some kind of inline pre-heater on the water inlet hose?

 

[Lazy JW]

How is the raw water plumbing configured? If it is a pipe or hose, then an adjustable inline water pressure regulator could be installed. I have used these on numerous applications in sawmills.
Joe

 

[64 inboard]

How is the raw water plumbing configured? If it is a pipe or hose, then an adjustable inline water pressure regulator could be installed. I have used these on numerous applications in sawmills.
Joe

If you look at the bottom pic in my first posting, you can see the water pump just below the alternator. the red hose is the water pickup from a thru-hull fitting in the bottom of the boat. The black hose running along side the block supplies the cooling water to the motor. I think it is a 1".

I like that idea...would the regulator be available thru an auto parts store?

 

[Thad]

Can't see the pulley/ drive for the water pump. Just how fast is it turning? Could you swap pulleys and slow it down? How about a thermostat on the discharge end of the block with a pressure relief valve between pump and block discharging into the intake side of the pump? Not an original idea, thinking about the turbo boost dump system. Another possiblity is swap for an electric water pump w/ thermostatic switch.

 

[Lazy JW]

........ I think it is a 1".

I like that idea...would the regulator be available thru an auto parts store?

Maybe, they are not a "normal" automotive piece; I purchased them through various industrial supply houses. Before spending money on a regulator I would be inclined to install a pressure gauge just to see what the operating parameters are with the present equipment.
Joe

 

[fordconvert]

This is more or less what all the boats and pumps that use car engines I have worked on look like. They have all been fresh water systems (no heat exchangers, we are a long ways from the ocean here). This one is a Mercruiser inline so its about the cleanest looking one I have seen. Some of the others (that I cant find photos of) have more of a home made from plumbing parts look to them but appear to do the same thing by regulating how much fresh water gets introduced into the stream that is circulating in the block. Most have had the regular car water pump but I do remember working on a pump that did not have one. I am looking for the pics of that one because I think it would work on his setup. It looked like it would be fairly easy to make out of plumbing parts.

Here is one boat. It should be clickable. I think you can see how the system works. The V's are a bit harder to get looking at pics because there are more hoses but I thinks its clear with this one.

 

[64 inboard]

fordconvert,
Big difference in what you posted and what this boat is. Your pic is of an I/O (has outdrive out the back of hull). They pretty much use standard automotive rotation engines, and the motor/outdrive/prop is at the back of boat.

My boat is a straight /direct drive inboard.(prop shaft goes thru floor,prop under the hull) and motor is in middle of boat.These motors almost always ran 'backwards' of automotive motors, either by turning the motor around..flywheel forward-like this boat, or actually running the motor/crankshaft backwards/reverse rotation(RH) like my other boats.

btw, lots of the straight inboards do run two water pumps, just not this one.


here is a pic that shows how this motor sets in the boat:

 

[fordconvert]

I got that about how its in your boat. I was just trying to explain how the T stat works. To me its a very logical setup that seems to work very well. I know my photo is of a mercruiser but its the best photo I can find that sort of shows how it regulates. I have seen engines like yours that had a setup like the merc one. One boat I worked on was an early 60's with what I think was a chrysler motor backwards like yours. It had a rather crude looking block on either the inlet or outlet of the engine that looked like it housed the stat and did the same thing as the mercruiser does.

 

['68falconohio]

Where is your temp. sensor located, in the head like automotive applications? Is your temp. gauge accurate?

 

[Bradbutlernc]

Thats a sweet boat man, i love the vintage stuff. If i were in your situation i would just take a newer head, rebuild it, throw a good carb on top of it and do a tune up, and see what shell do.

 

[64 inboard]

Where is your temp. sensor located, in the head like automotive applications? Is your temp. gauge accurate?

I replaced the original electric gauge with a new SW mechanical gauge. The sensor is in the "back"(if on a car) of the head, right along the alternator. If you look close, you can see the end of the sensor sticking up ,just under the throttle cable, in the bottom pic I posted above.

fordconvert, I certainly dont mean to be a smart @ss in explaining the differences. I do know that most people are not aware that early straight inboards run backward rotation engines, yet alone a ffw inboard setup. My point is, with the flywheel forward setup, I dont see how an automotive water pump could be used, as it would have to mount on what is the back of this motor, above the trans?

I am hoping to CC the heads this weekend to see what they are for sure.. then take one of the "new" ones in for a rebuild. As for carb, Im pretty much stuck with the Carter YH sidedraft...no engine cover clearance.