"HELP! please i beg of you" my holley 1946 is flooding out

[sctty1986]

hi i just recently rebuilt my holley 1946 . it apparently isnt the stock 1980 mustang carb. and the cylinder head is a BB code. and the block EO. so my thought would be the carb is from the 1982 farmont that i traced it to. my question is i bought a carb kit and the gaskets werent right so i made some and used all the hard parts. NOW THERE is where i think i screwed up. the ball that is included in the kit i installed it bc i lost the original ball. .

ok before i keep blabbering. i just went to fire the fresh engine and did the break in then at the 15 min mark it floods down. so i shut it off and look into the carb seeing as how i hear squirting. and sure enough it is litterally releiving all the pressure into the engine instead of being shut off. so i adjust the float to the best knowledge i can bc the instruction sheet included with the repair kit says nowhere the measurement of the floats. so i set the lower lip of the float flush with the plate. it leaked the same set it to where they were 1/16 then 1/8 and it slowwed down quite a bit but now it wont FIRE UP. but anyways i killed the battery so its on charge right now when i get home later in about 2 hrs ill try it and if not ill seriously think about selling it. or getting an adapter for a holley 5200 i got sitting to the side.

 

[CobraSix]

My guess is that your float level being wrong 'corrected' the fact your idle circuit is some how clogged. So, when you fixed the float level, it wouldn't start.

That, or you have a massive vacuum leak somewhere and the flooding carb 'fixed' the problem with the extra fuel dumping in.

 

[sctty1986]

i am going to install the retainer clip for the float. i overlooked it seeing as how i have had the carb dismanteled for a month sitting in Carb Dip. the design of the adjustment tang for the float is round and withouth the clip as the fuel enters the carb and the floats rise so does the tang without the retainer and will not shut the incoming fuel off. gonna do that when i get some time . I`m going to try that and if not i have a buddy with a decent running carb that i can borrow/buy he wants to change the complete carb just cuz of a leaky gasket.he wants 30 bucks. so i think its worth trying. i`ll let you guys know what the outcome is. ill post some pics when i get the camera program installed in the computer. I have pics al the way back to the time i got the engine block back from the machine shop.

 

[CobraSix]

That'll do it.

 

[JackFish]

It's a good idea to break and engine in with a "known good" carb.
I hate those little balls, I'm always loosing them.
Is the brass weight that goes on top of it still there?

You might want to check the needle valve inlet into the carb.
I've had junk get stuck in there and hold it open.

Oh, just read the post about the retainer. Yah that'll cause a problem.

 

[sctty1986]

Yes sir it was the flat pin retainer. i installed it set float height and she fired right up and held rpms. finished the break in. now i have another issue. why is my oil filler cap acting like a vacuum . it pulls a vacuum. is this normal? and now i am getting some light smoke out exhaust. some irradic timing at idle. and i have to turn the idle screw 2 turns for the highest idle. i havnt tried it in gear yet. it doesnt even get up to a decent temp. it stays cold. below normaol temp.also with my timing light the balancer notch is off. the engine fires just fine. i tried a tooth in either direction on the distributor and all i got was exploding exhaust. but i can say all of the work has paid off it runs.

 

[JackFish]

Yes there would vacuum at the oil cap if the PCV system is working correctly.

 

[sctty1986]

why does it run rough when the vacuum is present?and also i fired it up today connected the vacuum advance and all remaining hoses and now it sounds like a rocker is tapping and it has a slight missfire at all rpms and a lil smoke is present out the exhaust in low rpms and high rpms. it also dies while in a gear. i cant get a steady timing bc my notch on the balancer is way off. i checked it during assembly and it hadnt shifted. so could my distributor be off a tooth ? if so which way forward or backward. clockwise or counter. i wish i had more experience with these inline engines. this is the first one i have completely rebuilt.

p.s. the smoke doesnt smell like oil smoke it smells more like another kind of oil. i did add break in lube to the oil for the initial startup. could that still be present . and also my valve guides were in manageable condition and i am using umbrella seals. anything like this be a culprit?

 

[ludwig]

If the mark on you dizz has slipped, you can find TDC manually by using one of several techniques ['search' for "finding TDC"] and then make a new mark on the outer ring. I use a white pen.

If you think the dizzy is off by a tooth or so, you can replug the wires, moving the whole setup in one direction or another: 1) find TDC, 2) pull the dist cap and note where the rotor is pointing, 3) reinstall the cap and replug with the #1 wire closest to the hole your rotor was pointed at.

You can also re-stab the distributor. It is not hard. Make a mark of where the rotor points to on the outside and reinsert it, moving it over one tooth. Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get it there. Then note where the rotor points when it is seated. If it is at the same point, you have not moved it to another tooth.

Mustangs Plus (aka: Restomods Plus) probably has a tech article on their website because they had a photo article about this in the catalog a couple years ago titeled: "Restabbing the distributor."

 

[sctty1986]

would the rockers being over tightened cause it to miss or skip or fire right depending on the lash set would it help to re-set the rockers? meaning the timing and stalling in gear? or is that inevitable with a 274/274 112 camshaft?

 

[JackFish]

To where is the timing set?

 

[sctty1986]

uhh my timing?
at idle with vacuum adv. disconnected around 8*. could anyone point me in the right direction to get the timing right. i feel there can be more power made on this motor with a bit bigger carb. a new exhaust with less STock krinckle bends. coil and ignition box would satisfy.

BUT!. in the meantime gotta get it right. i have my timing and mixture screw set to where it idles decent. and doesnt die. but the rpms on the tach show it jumping around all over the place. put a tester to see how it was firing and its erratic. what could this be coil? cap? rotor? foreign lubricants in cap. and base? advance springs worn?
where should i connect my vacuum advance?

i still have maybe 2 turns on the idle screw. i noticed about .035 in. deflection in the throttle shaft.

the engine sounds good at idle, it clears out about 1800 rpms. and gets quiet. seems like the carb is too small or it could use a jet. would a weber 2 brrl work well u think?

 

[Frankenstang]

uhh my timing?
at idle with vacuum adv. disconnected around 8*. could anyone point me in the right direction to get the timing right.

Rotate counter clockwise and aim for about 12* initial timing, back off slightly if you get detonation.

but the rpms on the tach show it jumping around all over the place. put a tester to see how it was firing and its erratic. what could this be coil? cap? rotor? foreign lubricants in cap. and base? advance springs worn?
where should i connect my vacuum advance?

Going back to your question above about valve lash...is this a solid lifter build, then yes valve lash is critical to good idle and performance.

Vacuum measure for timing should be done off the log intake right below the carb. Vac advance for the dizzy comes from a side port on the 1946 IIRC there are both SCV and non-SCV types of 1946's (of course SCV type should be used with a load-o dizzy and no mix-matching between the two types).

The erratic timing is a concern...don't think you could have stabbed it 180* out and got it to run , but did you verify TDC as Ludwig suggested? Just curious...worn dizzy shaft, broken advance springs which actually control retard as well as keeping advance within limits, and worn or broken breaker plate are all possible suspects.

Maybe a refresh to this point of how your build is setup would help...might even consider putting the specs in your signature. For example:
Block cid/year/bore?
head/year - valves/porting?
compression? (even ballpark)
274/274 112 cam
lifter type?
ingition - dizzy type/control?
1946 carb
exhaust setup?
EDIT: Filling in the blanks above might further the diagnosis/discussion

 

[bubba22349]

i noticed about .035 in. deflection in the throttle shaft.

That would be a lot and a good sized Vac. leak

You could rebush it or try to make some shims.

 

[sctty1986]

well finally i got it all idled and timed good. pulled the plgs after driving it to work for a few days put 200 miles on it, and they looked a lil white on the electrode and around the threaded portion of the plug had black carbon . im guessing a lil rich down low and needs a size or two larger jet for the mains. Anyone know where i can get some jets for this carb? will standard holley jets work?

the thing runs good just my choke pull off diaphram is blown and i had to back the choke spring tensioner so it wouldn`t choke itself to death on cold startup.haha..... well other than that!. I know that modifying the cylinder head for the two barrel would have a drastic affect on the performance side of it. bc it runs out of carb.it is extremely responsive ,but as i said it runs out of breath.i roll on the throttle till the floor and it stops pulling at about 3/4 pedal. but it pulls bigtime up in the rpms .
it needs a nice 38/38 synchornous weber. if anyone has one let me know.? but in the meantime, i currently dissassembled the 32-36 holley 5200. I got for a ridiculously cheap price that anyone wouldn`t pass up 1.00 ..... yep , pulled the thing ot of the galon of dip rinsed it blew it off and I think i couldn`t say the least but it looks like a brand new carb.



p.s. i ran with a bmw 330i and he got me off the line but , at about 4 lengths i started chasing him down. 4,000 rpms 1st gear i`m dead beside him. 2nd gear hits in at 5,000 and the thing took on a new life it pulled right by him.I know this is good news. and i had an 80 lb toll box in the back spare tire jack tire iron and my tool bag. the car is a 1980 mustang ghia automatic with a/c , original body panels. in bad shape in and out , i`d say it qualifies as a sleeper. can`t wait to get the supercharger and 390 4 barrel.