How to tell if engine is a 170 or 200

[Anonymous]

Last fall I purchased a estate 63 falcon that was mostly restored, it runs
very rich, I purchased a rebuilt carb for a 170 six with manual transmission (tag on old and new reads Ford C30F) with the rebuilt carb it runs just like it did before. So rich that it will foul the plugs in a matter of a few hours.

The engine has no environmental equipment, just the road draft tube found on the 60- and early 63 falcons

Reading one post on how to tell the differance between the two engines is to count the number of freeze plugs (140 & 170 have three) the 200 has five. Can someone verify this? My engine has five freeze plugs

If this is indeed a 200, from what I have read at this site I have the wrong carb, can anyone steer me in the right direction of which carb I should have?

In advance I would like to say THANK YOU for any and all replies

 

[CobraSix]

you do indeed have a 200 or a 250 if you have 5 freeze plugs.

Slade

 

[Anonymous]

The starter on a 200 is above the oil pan flange. The 250 starter is even or just below the flange..ZZ

 

[Anonymous]

Many thanks of the ID of the engine for me, is there any numbers on the block that would tell me what year of engine?

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Lee:

There is a casting # under the exhaust manifold just above the pil pan line. It will be a series of 4 digits, ie C5DE, The 1st letter is the decade, C + 60's. The 2nd number is the year, C5DE= 1965.

Since your Falcon is a 63, this engine is most likely not the original engine. 200 were not available in a Falcon until the '64 model year

Is your carb a Holley or and Autolite. Falcon's switched form Holley's to Autolites in the '63 model year. The 170 Autolite and the 200 Autolite carbs appear to be identical. They are a model 1100. They are different inside though. The venturi dimeter is 1.10" for the 170 and 1.20" for the 200. That doesn't sound like much, but in area it's quite a bit. Neither the Holley nor the Autolite are known to be particularly rich at idle. You may have other issues.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

David, thanks for the tip, the number on the block is C6DE which makes this a 1966 engine?

The carb is a Ford carb which I understand was standard in 1963

You are correct I think about the over rich problem might be due to something else.

The only way that the engine will idle at all smothly is with the air idle screw turned all most all the way in. I have insured that the throtle idle adjust ment screw is not opening the carb butterfly to the point that it would be past the idle mixture.

With the car on the open road the engine runs real strong, only when the RPM drops below about 1100 does it start to load up.

The car has been 99 percent restored lacking a few cosmetic minor things.

The engine was rebuilt but by whom I do know, everything is new in and on the engine.

After I put the new rebuilt carb on, with still the same problem, I started with all the basic trouble shooting I could think of that might make the
engine run rich.

Yesterday I pulled off the timing cover thinking perhaps that the chain might have been installed one notch off. It was ok. the gears and chain look new, the chain streach is well within limits.

I live in Northport WA, 150 miles from Spokane and reliable mechanics
I'm a fair shade tree wrench turner, but at this stage I'm about ready to turn it over to someone who knows more than I do.

From reading other posts I see that the idle jet number 125 is the average on the one barrel carbs. I did find one post where a rebuilt carb
had the same size idle and power jet? I never was any good with carbs but think I will tear the old carb apart and see if I can find the idle jet.

If you or anyone else have any ideas of something I'm missing please don't hesitate to tell me

Thanks

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI
check the power valve in the carb.. (that can cause it to run rich and doesn't come in the kit) and maybe a vacuum leak (due to it running better with the screw almost all the way in).
Tim

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, a vacum leak was my 1st thought, checked the lines, vacum advance, sprayed enough WD40 around the intake and carb where nothing will never rust. No Leak!

However a vacum leak would result in the engine running lean rather than rich most of the time?

As for the carb, I wouldn't know the power valve if bit me, I do have it adjusted where it idles only on the ideal circuit. (i'm not very smart when it comes to carbs)

Today I'm going to take the old carb apart and see what size the idle jet is
I know the carbs I have are for the 170 cu in, as far as I can find out this carb should work just fine.

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HI YA Lee
The power valve well be in the bottom of the carb on the inside, I'm not sure exactuly were I havent had mine apart yet.. with it being a new rebuilt I don't think its the power valve Oh just though maybe its that the float needs adjusted. That would cause it to be rich at idle.. if it had to much gas in it..
tim

 

[Anonymous]

Well the carb is apart, now I remember why I never had much luck tinkering with these things many years ago.

A blind man could find the power jet, but where do they hide the idle jet


One thing I did not metion in my attemps to find why this things runs rich. There is no fuel regulator on this engine, but cranking the engine with the plugs out the fuel pump puts out 4.5 lbs pressure which my book says is normal. Is it possable that with the engine running the pump would put out higher pressure?

Perhaps just as GP a regulator might be a sound investment :

 

[pedal2themetal45]

The idle jets are in the float bowl. should be near the bottom (round with a hole in the middle and a slit for a screw driver.) and screwed in to the carb side. With the float and the needle and seat installed in the top if you invert the top the float should be level with the top. if it bends toward the top of the carb (that you have in your hand) then the fuel level is to high. I think the pressure is OK thats norm. I forget how to figger out power valve sizes for motor. I'll check my data base if I have it I'll repost.
tim

 

[Anonymous]

Tim

I posted a few pictures of the inside of the carb at
http://mash.homestead.com/carb.html if you have time to take a look, couldn't see hide nor hair of anything that looked like a idle jet

I'm going to be off line starting tommorrow for a few days, but will get back to this site asap.

Thank you and everyone else for the help and patience

 

[pedal2themetal45]

HA LEE
Yes in the last pic its in the top in the middle.. round brass small hole in it and a slit for a screw driver . Also With the float and the needle and seat in and that peace setting like it is in the pic. the float should be level (in a streight line with the top) and I beleve in the first pic the power valve is at the bottom left of the pic. (screwed into the side of the carb.)
tim

 

[Anonymous]

well dumb me I was thinking that was the power jet. Any way the number on the jet is F60. F for Ford?

Reading back through many posts on this site I find there are two numbering systems for jets.

Dealing with the ford jets I find numbers kicked around for the idle jet of sizes 45 to 65. I will ckeck with the local NAPA and see if they have something in the range of 45 to 50 and give this a try.

It will be about two weeks before I get back, but will try a smaller idle jet and will post the results to this thread.

again thanks for your help..................Lee

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, arn't carburetors so much fun? I have enough trouble trying to find help for my holley 1946 single barrel. Well, im having carb problems myself that I cant seem to figure out, good luck on your carb