All Small Six My 200 l6 engine is a hodgepodge...can this affect performance?

This relates to all small sixes

My66Mustang

Active member
I have a project mustang that has a 200 l6 engine that runs, but not the best. According to the codes, the block is from 1978, the exhaust manifold is from 1975 and the intake is from 1970. The carb is a one barrel carter which from my research was common on these engines. What most catches my attention is the intake, due to it being made before major emission regulations. It idles in park pretty good but doesn't do well accelerating in drive especially after like 45 miles an hour, it wants to stall out. Could it be something else that I'll have to do more research into?
 
I suggest you pull the 6 plugs and take a pic, see if they are carboned up or clean. then do a compressoion test with them all out, make sure the battery is charged first, write down the compression of each cylinder.

if compression is ok you might clean the carb or check the float level , check the timing is right and since it is made up of parts the advance may or may not be apporoppriate but I'd start with the basics.

if compression is exceptionally low , you might as well find that out first.

if you like you can next put a squirt of oil in each cylinder, do the compressin test again and again write them down, see if there is any difference. Theory is that if oiled, that may help seal the rings temporarily and result in higher compression readings. that won't fix anything but it may give some indication if your valves are not closing well or if the engine has a lot of blow by. if you see no change you may blame the valves as the oil made no difference but thats just theory.. if your compression is very low then you have bigger fish to fry.

if you remove the oil filler cap theory is that it should be sucking not blowing. If you have loose pistons/ rings and lots of blow by then it may reach a point where the PCV system isn't keeping up with the amount of blow by.

I dont know how PCV is routed but on some older cars it was put through a road draft tube down at the road but in later years that became an environmental no no.

the fact that its lacking power under higher speeds and loads could indicate fuel starvation , maybe a plugged filter. I'd perhaps do a test with a gravity fed can or you could monitor fuel pressure to see if it dips indicating fuel starvation. being a carb it isnt; high fuel pressure but it needs to keep up the fuel flow.
if you have for example a mechanical pump with a torn diaphram it might result in fuel flow not keeping up.

if you suspect a rusty gas tank you might install a transparent in line filter before tha carb and if it keeps accumulating rust it tells you you have a rusty tank issue.

if the carb is ok and the problem is elsewhere then you really dont need to be ucking about turning scews and such, so I'd check compression first and also check fuel flow..

a simple way to check fuel flow , crank it with the hose to the carb in a gas can, do it outside fire extinguisher at your feet and be careful you don't wan to start a fuel fire. there will be a documented fuel flow rate but mainly you just need to know if it has enough fuel to keep up to its needs. Hey if the fuel is trickling and not even really a good healthy stream then you know something is up without getting technical.

my suggestion is to do the other checks before resorting to playing with the carb or adjusting timing. My reasoning is you want to be careful that your troubleshooting process is not creating new issues on top of the issues you see now.

one question I'd ask is what was the history prior to this issue? Did it sit a long time? was it running just great last year and this year you have issues? were any changes made between now and when it last ran great? Those may be clues.

If compression is low well that doesn't happen so easily due to being parked, but rust in the fuel tank or a bad pump could be more likely if its coming out of storage.

when a car runs out of fuel normally youll feel it sort of sputtering , it wont simply shut off, it will normally stumble first. it might kind of stumble and become rough running if its starving and you will obviously use more fuel at any speed.

Won't hurt to clean the cap and plug wires maybe with alcohol get rid of any grease or oil. You can start it in the dark and check if you see any sparking to ground, probably unlikely.

you can check spark to see if it seems like it has a good strong snappy spark or a weak spark but I'm not really suggesting it has a ignition issue.
If the cap or where the plug wires plug in to (or onto) the distributor cap look green and corroded, clean that up. If it has a points sytem perhaps you could have a dirty or pitted set of points but that may lead into checking timing. I'd look at compression first. it idles so it has a spark. it runs so it has some fuel. pop the cap and see if the electrodes inside look all green and fouled up. make sure all your plug wires are properly seated..not pushed half way on, you should feel them clip on.

thats just very general info to get you started, Others here are much more knowledgeable about your carb , ignition setup and options, and the details of specific engine configuration.

if you dont have a comression tester try borrowing one or you can buy one, its not really a tool someone uses often but good to have. most any backyard mechanic would surely lend you his. Sometimes they can kind of fail to hold pressure or the rubber end may become age hardened. if it leaks down, its just a tire valve, clean it or replace it.
 
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As stated previously the basic info you need to have. I would post pics of you carb and dist to see what you are working with as they may be mismatched.
 
I suggest you pull the 6 plugs and take a pic, see if they are carboned up or clean. then do a compressoion test with them all out, make sure the battery is charged first, write down the compression of each cylinder.

if compression is ok you might clean the carb or check the float level , check the timing is right and since it is made up of parts the advance may or may not be apporoppriate but I'd start with the basics.

if compression is exceptionally low , you might as well find that out first.

if you like you can next put a squirt of oil in each cylinder, do the compressin test again and again write them down, see if there is any difference. Theory is that if oiled, that may help seal the rings temporarily and result in higher compression readings. that won't fix anything but it may give some indication if your valves are not closing well or if the engine has a lot of blow by. if you see no change you may blame the valves as the oil made no difference but thats just theory.. if your compression is very low then you have bigger fish to fry.

if you remove the oil filler cap theory is that it should be sucking not blowing. If you have loose pistons/ rings and lots of blow by then it may reach a point where the PCV system isn't keeping up with the amount of blow by.

I dont know how PCV is routed but on some older cars it was put through a road draft tube down at the road but in later years that became an environmental no no.

the fact that its lacking power under higher speeds and loads could indicate fuel starvation , maybe a plugged filter. I'd perhaps do a test with a gravity fed can or you could monitor fuel pressure to see if it dips indicating fuel starvation. being a carb it isnt; high fuel pressure but it needs to keep up the fuel flow.
if you have for example a mechanical pump with a torn diaphram it might result in fuel flow not keeping up.

if you suspect a rusty gas tank you might install a transparent in line filter before tha carb and if it keeps accumulating rust it tells you you have a rusty tank issue.

if the carb is ok and the problem is elsewhere then you really dont need to be ucking about turning scews and such, so I'd check compression first and also check fuel flow..

a simple way to check fuel flow , crank it with the hose to the carb in a gas can, do it outside fire extinguisher at your feet and be careful you don't wan to start a fuel fire. there will be a documented fuel flow rate but mainly you just need to know if it has enough fuel to keep up to its needs. Hey if the fuel is trickling and not even really a good healthy stream then you know something is up without getting technical.

my suggestion is to do the other checks before resorting to playing with the carb or adjusting timing. My reasoning is you want to be careful that your troubleshooting process is not creating new issues on top of the issues you see now.

one question I'd ask is what was the history prior to this issue? Did it sit a long time? was it running just great last year and this year you have issues? were any changes made between now and when it last ran great? Those may be clues.

If compression is low well that doesn't happen so easily due to being parked, but rust in the fuel tank or a bad pump could be more likely if its coming out of storage.

when a car runs out of fuel normally youll feel it sort of sputtering , it wont simply shut off, it will normally stumble first. it might kind of stumble and become rough running if its starving and you will obviously use more fuel at any speed.

Won't hurt to clean the cap and plug wires maybe with alcohol get rid of any grease or oil. You can start it in the dark and check if you see any sparking to ground, probably unlikely.

you can check spark to see if it seems like it has a good strong snappy spark or a weak spark but I'm not really suggesting it has a ignition issue.
If the cap or where the plug wires plug in to (or onto) the distributor cap look green and corroded, clean that up. If it has a points sytem perhaps you could have a dirty or pitted set of points but that may lead into checking timing. I'd look at compression first. it idles so it has a spark. it runs so it has some fuel. pop the cap and see if the electrodes inside look all green and fouled up. make sure all your plug wires are properly seated..not pushed half way on, you should feel them clip on.

thats just very general info to get you started, Others here are much more knowledgeable about your carb , ignition setup and options, and the details of specific engine configuration.

if you dont have a comression tester try borrowing one or you can buy one, its not really a tool someone uses often but good to have. most any backyard mechanic would surely lend you his. Sometimes they can kind of fail to hold pressure or the rubber end may become age hardened. if it leaks down, its just a tire valve, clean it or replace it.
This is all extremely useful information!! I'll fill you in on some stuff:

The car had a new gas tank and new lines when I bought it and it's been in the garage since I've had it, so I think I can rule those out. The compression check is something I did not do, I will definitely do that. Some of the parts you listed that I suggest checking like the fuel filter, spark plugs and wires, have all been replaced, so I think I can rule those out too.

It's very possible that it does have a weak spark due to a bad distributor and a bad fuel pump, because those were pretty much the only things I didn't replace 😐 dang, I didn't even think of that. I did take out the distributor and remember timing it but now I'm thinking that I might have done it wrong. If I remember right, the distributor is from the mid 60's. When I get a battery (I'm thinking soon) I'm going to do a compression test. I'm going to change the fuel pump also, and I will do more research on the distributor 👍👍👍
 
As stated previously the basic info you need to have. I would post pics of you carb and dist to see what you are working with as they may be mismatched.

As stated previously the basic info you need to have. I would post pics of you carb and dist to see what you are working with as they may be mismatched.
They can be mismatched? How so? Here is a picture of my carb I couldn't get a good picture for my distributor. I know that the distributor is from the mid 60's and the block is a 78. Could that be an incompatibility problem?
 

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They can be mismatched? How so? Here is a picture of my carb I couldn't get a good picture for my distributor. I know that the distributor is from the mid 60's and the block is a 78. Could that be an incompatibility problem?

Knowing what distributor you have on a Ford 200, especially if it’s in a mid-60’s car is about the most important part of the equation because at that time, Ford had a thing called the Load-O-matic distributor (often abbreviated as LOM). It requires a matching carburetor like an Autoloite 1100 which will give the distributor the correct (non standard) vacuum signal. The biggest “feature” on the LOM is that it has no mechanical advance. It is strictly vacuum and most carbs will run out of vacuum at some point and by that time, with a standard distributor design, mechanical advance will have taken over.

If you’ve got a non LOM carb and a LOM distributor, it might be the reason why it falls on its face at around 45 MPH.

When you have a moment, see if you can get a photo of the distributor.
 
Hi, as mentioned, the 66 engines came with the early Load-O-Matic distributor and the Spark Control Valve carbs. The thing I see in the picture is the metal tube for the vacuum advance, a tell tale for the the early distributors. You can learn all about this in the tech section here. Many "mechanics" miss matched parts over the years, and while the engine will run, it will not perform the way it should. Many guys get a late 60's distributor (not the emissions distributor with 2 vacuum chambers), or go electronic. So figure out which distributor you have, and run your compression test. Good luck
 
I did take out the distributor and remember timing it but now I'm thinking that I might have done it wrong.
it sounds like the timing situation is worth exploring to see you have it right. Others here are much more knowledgeable about this so I suggest you follow the advice of the posts above.

sure you may change the pump for reliability reasons but you can check the flow and pressure to get an idea if that's the source of the issue. basically the job of the fuel supply system is to keep the float bowl full and if its doing that adequately then this is not your issue.

sometimes its best to tackle the troubleshooting and get it running well and then sure, go ahead and replace parts for reliability reasons with a test run between jobs. That way if a new issue is introduced , the cause is obvious.

If all was stock Id consider a good quality cap with copper or brass electrodes and decent wires , new plugs, ponts and condenser if its an older type to be basic tune up parts you might want to make sure you have the distributor the experts are suggesting.

for example the cap and wires might be of a different style and you likely don't need new points if you are steering towards having a more modern setup with a hall sensor and electronic ignition.
Id avoid the urge to throw parts in like a coil or other things until it is evident that they are needed.
a lot of the new caps do not have copper or brass electrodes you have to pay a bit more for those but if the cap is a cheapo it should still work. it wont last as well but its easy to change later.

ive bought a couple of cheapo offshore distributors, maybe not the best quality,but super cheap and functional. some of the plug wire sets Ive recieved went straight to the trash can, just real junk. buyer beware I guess..
 
They can be mismatched? How so? Here is a picture of my carb I couldn't get a good picture for my distributor. I know that the distributor is from the mid 60's and the block is a 78. Could that be an incompatibility problem?
It will be an incompatibility problem if you have the LOM distributor, as explained above. When possible, remove the distributor cap and get as good a picture of the inside of it as possible, this will answer the question. "How so" is, the LOM uses a unique method of advance, all timing advance is done with vacuum only. This requires a matching carb with the vacuum passages set up for this distributor. Normal carb/ distributor combos, centrifugal weights in the distributor handle most of the advance, and the carb adds a part-throttle vacuum to increase advance in that operating parameter. The two designs are not compatible.

Remember to open the choke and throttle to wide-open during the compression test. Easy to forget. And all spark plugs out. :)
 
it sounds like the timing situation is worth exploring to see you have it right. Others here are much more knowledgeable about this so I suggest you follow the advice of the posts above.

sure you may change the pump for reliability reasons but you can check the flow and pressure to get an idea if that's the source of the issue. basically the job of the fuel supply system is to keep the float bowl full and if its doing that adequately then this is not your issue.

sometimes its best to tackle the troubleshooting and get it running well and then sure, go ahead and replace parts for reliability reasons with a test run between jobs. That way if a new issue is introduced , the cause is obvious.

If all was stock Id consider a good quality cap with copper or brass electrodes and decent wires , new plugs, ponts and condenser if its an older type to be basic tune up parts you might want to make sure you have the distributor the experts are suggesting.

for example the cap and wires might be of a different style and you likely don't need new points if you are steering towards having a more modern setup with a hall sensor and electronic ignition.
Id avoid the urge to throw parts in like a coil or other things until it is evident that they are needed.
a lot of the new caps do not have copper or brass electrodes you have to pay a bit more for those but if the cap is a cheapo it should still work. it wont last as well but its easy to change later.

ive bought a couple of cheapo offshore distributors, maybe not the best quality,but super cheap and functional. some of the plug wire sets Ive recieved went straight to the trash can, just real junk. buyer beware I guess..
Ya most of the parts on the engine were pretty much stock, I'm starting to think that I might need a new distributor.
 
It will be an incompatibility problem if you have the LOM distributor, as explained above. When possible, remove the distributor cap and get as good a picture of the inside of it as possible, this will answer the question. "How so" is, the LOM uses a unique method of advance, all timing advance is done with vacuum only. This requires a matching carb with the vacuum passages set up for this distributor. Normal carb/ distributor combos, centrifugal weights in the distributor handle most of the advance, and the carb adds a part-throttle vacuum to increase advance in that operating parameter. The two designs are not compatible.

Remember to open the choke and throttle to wide-open during the compression test. Easy to forget. And all spark plugs out. :)
This is what I got here. Never done a compression test in my life but it will be another good learning opportunity. *adds engine compression test tools to shopping list*
 

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Hi, you have the early LOM distributor. The easy way to tell is the flatter pancake style vacuum advance. I enlarged the pictures and it looks like the breaker plate is covered with metal filings. If the bushing is disintegrating you have a big problem. That oil port has maybe not been serviced in a long time. grab the rotor and try to move the distributor shaft. If the shaft can wobble the dwell will be all over the place and that can explain poor performance. Now I would decide on a distributor upgrade. Good luck
 
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I'm starting to think that I might need a new distributor.
You do, and don't panic. Follow the recommendation of the small6 guys- (I'm a truck engine guy, so can't advise directly). The upgrade will be advantageous in every area: maintenance, hotter spark and most significant, a correct ignition curve. Just a few degrees of ignition timing error make a huge change in drivability, power and economy. Relative to what you are getting in return, the $ investment is modest and well worth it.

Never done a compression test in my life but it will be another good learning opportunity. *adds engine compression test tools to shopping list*
If you desire guidance, speak up.


 
I like the screw in type better than the ones with rubber tips, less room for error. I’m surprised nobody mentioned the ground wire,, it’s toast!
Get with Bill at Ambler Race- in the vendor section. He can get you set up with a quality distributor curved properly for your car. I think he’s got $50 off right now 😎
 
You will get a lot of good advice on what to get for replacement but one option to consider is getting a rebuilt and custom curved DSII from a member on here, wsa111, who is very qualified to provide that and guide you through balance of parts selection for your complete ignition system. Additionally there are many carb choices for better performance such as the Rochester small base 2bbl which will require some modification but very doable. You will very likely need alterations to accelerator pedal linkage and a compatible air cleaner. The Rochester is going to be available used for rebuild or purchase from a rebuilder. I have attached a link here for general info:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/rochester-2bbl-large-base-vs-small-base-dims.181649/

Somewhere on here is a post with pics describing fitting the Rochester to your carb base. I'll see if I can find it.
 
You will get a lot of good advice on what to get for replacement but one option to consider is getting a rebuilt and custom curved DSII from a member on here, wsa111, who is very qualified to provide that and guide you through balance of parts selection for your complete ignition system. Additionally there are many carb choices for better performance such as the Rochester small base 2bbl which will require some modification but very doable. You will very likely need alterations to accelerator pedal linkage and a compatible air cleaner. The Rochester is going to be available used for rebuild or purchase from a rebuilder. I have attached a link here for general info:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/rochester-2bbl-large-base-vs-small-base-dims.181649/

Somewhere on here is a post with pics describing fitting the Rochester to your carb base. I'll see if I can find it.
Same guy👍. Bill Ambler
I don’t think it was ever discussed, but in first post you mentioned the intake was from a 70’s vintage. Is the intake separate from the head, or all cast into one piece??
 
Same guy👍. Bill Ambler
I don’t think it was ever discussed, but in first post you mentioned the intake was from a 70’s vintage. Is the intake separate from the head, or all cast into one piece??
Oh yeah I see where you mentioned Bill previously. Two endorsements!
 
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