Hydrogen or Orgone Power

Danielson

Well-known member
I have long been intrigued by the feasibility of running a car on water. I first heard of it over 20 years ago and believe it can be done. In a recent conversation with a person I met he confirmed another report of what I heard about 6 years ago. A simple experiment can be done using 2 pieces of food grade stainless steel suspended closly to (but not touching) each other in a jar of water. Hook a 12V + to one plate and the negative to the other and place a funnel or similar to gather the hydrogen. Have a flame near the outlet and you should get get small explosions as the hydrogen burns. I have found much more info on the web and also at this site. http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml
Has anyone else out there tried this ???
Cheers Dan
 
As I recall the energy required to break apart the water into hydrogen and O2 is pretty high, although i suppose one could do it using renewable energy i.e. wind, water or solar adn get a slight advantage that way. Admittedly though I haven't read the website although I will tonight, but just remeber it may be half truths as well.
 
the energy required to break the HHO bounds is high, and not recoverable when HH is burned.

there are some cheats to make it closer to an even system, but it still takes alot to create Hydrogen for burning
 
that and hydrogen's properties are about opposite of what makes good fuel for the otto-cycle. Turbine cycle? Perfect fuel for stationary ground applications. Anything that moves, basically forget it.

www.lubedev.com has some articles, one specifically regarding hydrogen as a motor fuel.

good luck
E
 
Danielson,

I have heard of the Joe Cell you are talking of. (For the others, the water supposedly is not split, but the "cell" acts as a conduit to focus "energy??" to the motor which can act like a fuel. That's the simplest, yet probably most confusing way to describe the Joe Cell.) I have some info on it, not much, but some. If you're interested, drop me a PM with your email address and I'll try and mail the links/attachments from work when I get a chance.

Regards,

Teddy :)
 
The process by which this cell is supposed to function is on the process of Electrolysis. Basically you take electricity and split water into HH and O. We did this way back in chemistry with a special rig that plugged into a 120v source and could seperate a entire gallon in about ten minutes. In the end a tiny flame from the H and nothing from the O was all you got. In the end could you run a car on it? Probably if you had a large enough power and water supply. Is it a source for the future? No, because it is not renewable. In the end you can't stick HH and O back together to make HHO. So over time you would end up with no water sources. Now I don't know about you, but I can live without oil, but I can't live without water. Sure it would take a while, but why attempt something that would only put us futher into trouble than we already are. If you want a true renewable resource to run your car on. Buy a diesel. Any will do. Then go on to www.greasecar.com buy a kit from them. It is not cheap but in the end it pays for itself. This kit allows you to run on vegatable oil, peanut oil, or other plant based oil. Don't freak out if you forget to add some though it will still run on diesel. So simply put, Buy the kit, and some fifty five gallon drums. Go to the local resturant and pump out the old vegatable oil that they have to pay to have removed. Filter this very well and you can drive as much as you want. Some systems are more expensive and heat the vegatable oil to keep it from gelling, others have you run diesel on startup and shut down to clean the injectors. Either way it is much easier than buying gas. Plan on getting about the same milage( 60 mpg with a jetta, 25mpg with a cummins with a 6 speed and a chip) the same emissions, and overall about the same exactly as running on regular diesel. If you are interested in how to do this or how to get milage in a diesel email me with diesel in the subject box.
 
Nullifies gravity?
Requires no energy and turns 18,000 RPM?
Powers the piston engine by charging the coolant water?

Read that linked page, and it becomes obvious in a matter of seconds that the "inventor" is either insane or a momumental fraud.
 
actually there is a few videos floating around where the inventor himself talks about it. just google "Joe cell" and kill some time reading all the stuff on it. I found it to be pretty interesting. The Joe Cell seems a bit intimidating to try and build, and somewhat finiky. But hey if it works grand. I might give this a try some day, but it kinda walks the line

One thing that i am planning on giving a try, is to make a "brown's gas" booster for my nissan sentra commuter. basically you do the whole electrolisis thing under the hood and pump it into the intake. The car still runs on gas, but gets a little boost from the H2 and the O (as they both would enter into the intake). From my uneducated understanding of this, the hydrogen being lighter than air, moves into the cylinder and fans out quicker than the air/fuel mixtures. Then when ignited, gives you more complete combustion, thus less fuel is needed. Another thing i read was that you would (in my case with EFI) need to get a "chip" that goes between the comp and the O2 sensor, basically telling the car to lean itself out as it is now running more efficiently. The generator is also supposed to help you over all power and and cut down on some of the emmissions. They seem simple enough to make, so i think i will give it a try one of these days. I doubt it will hurt anything, and even if it does, I only paid $700 for the sentra so i wont be crying too much about it. Have heard of getting as much as 25% increase in mileage with them. which would put me up in the 50mpg range on that car. My end goal would be 60mpg (as long as i keep my foot out of it :twisted: ) but that remains to be seen. Smoking fart can cars doin 60 in 2nd is fun. Its just the corners i gotta watch out for (no sway bars :shock: )

food for thought
 
Breaking down H2O to 2xH2 + 1xO2 then burning (oxidizing) the H2 gives H20 water> DUH! Burning is oxidizing. Basic Chem 101. What else would you be combine the H2 with when burning?

And at present there is no way, electrical, chemical or mechanical to does this with a net gain in energy.
 
sortafast":3ua043r0 said:
Have heard of getting as much as 25% increase in mileage with them.

Yeah, go ahead and try it.

It takes more elctricity from the alternator (uses HP through the belt) than what you get out of it so I don't believe it for a second.
 
Run the alternator off the exhaust gases via a turbo with a gear reduction system. No losses from the crankshaft to produce the electricity to break the H2O.
 
I66coupe":3iq237aq said:
Run the alternator off the exhaust gases via a turbo with a gear reduction system. No losses from the crankshaft to produce the electricity to break the H2O.

It's already been done.
You basicly take a 40 amp alternator and turn it into a 3 amp alternator.
It's a REALLLLY inefficient way to drive it.
 
what about gather the hydrogen in your house using a few of those house powering solar panels and a collector tank for the gas?

it would eventually fill up eh?
 
asimmons04":lrjiipd4 said:
it would eventually fill up eh?


Sure, eventually.
It would take about $1000 worth of solar panels to make about $50 of hydrogen a year.
20 years pay-off isn't that great.....
 
Jan 23 07 Ford released an Edge that is a plug in hybrid that runs on hydrogen. Run it on electric the first miles until power runs out then kick in the hydrogen engine to run a generator to recharge the batts.
Here's the release;


Ford Unveils Fuel Cell Hybrid
On January 23rd, Ford Motor Company unveiled the world’s first drivable fuel cell hybrid electric plug-in that combines an onboard hydrogen fuel cell generator with lithium-ion batteries to deliver more than 41 mpg with zero emissions. The vehicle is built on a flexible powertrain architecture that will enable Ford to use new fuel and propulsion technologies as they develop without redesigning the vehicle.

“This vehicle offers Ford the ultimate in flexibility in researching advanced propulsion technology,â€￾ said Gerhard Schmidt, vice president of research and advanced engineering for Ford Motor Company. “We could take the fuel cell power system out and replace it with a down-sized diesel, gasoline engine or any other powertrain connected to a small electric generator to make electricity like the fuel cell does now.â€￾



The new HySeries Driveâ„¢ powertrain featured in a Ford Edge uses a real-world version of the powerplant envisioned in the Ford Airstream concept unveiled earlier this month at the 2007 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. The HySeries Drive powertrain delivers a combined city/highway gasoline equivalent fuel economy rating of 41 mpg. For those who drive less than 50 miles each day, the average jumps to more than 80 mpg.

The plug-in hybrid is powered by a 336-volt lithium-ion battery pack at all times. The vehicle drives the first 25 miles each day on stored electricity alone, after which the fuel cell begins operating to keep the battery pack charged. This provides another 200 miles of range for a total of 225 miles with zero emissions. Individual experiences will vary widely and can stretch out the time between fill-ups to more than 400 miles: drivers with modest daily needs would need to refuel only rarely, drivers who travel less than 50 miles each day will see fuel economy well over 80 mpg, while those with long daily commutes will see somewhat lower numbers as the fuel cell must run a larger fraction of the time.



The Ford Edge with HySeries Drive can travel at speeds of up to 85 mph. An on-board charger (110/220 VAC) can refresh the battery pack when a standard home outlet is available, making the concept a true plug-in hybrid.

When the battery pack is depleted to approximately 40 percent, the hydrogen fuel cell – supplied by Ford partner Ballard – automatically turns on and begins generating electricity to recharge the batteries. Like a conventional automobile, the Ford Edge with HySeries Drive will go until it runs out of fuel – in this case via a 350-bar hydrogen tank that supplies 4.5 kg of useable hydrogen.

The HySeries Drive name is derived from the powertrain’s structure: a hydrogen fuel-cell-powered series hybrid drivetrain. This highly innovative approach reduces the size, weight, cost and complexity of a conventional fuel cell system by more than 50 percent. It also promises to more than double the lifetime of the fuel cell stack.

This flexible powertrain architecture enables the use of new fuel and propulsion technologies as they develop and become available without the need to redesign the vehicle and its control systems.

Certainly, many significant technical hurdles need to be overcome before a vehicle such as the Edge with HySeries Drive can become a reality. Fuel cell vehicles remain expensive, costing millions of dollars each. And the single biggest hurdle to plug-ins remains the cost of lithium-ion batteries. Much work also needs to be done to make fuel cells more durable and to create a hydrogen infrastructure.
 
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