I'm a complete newbie to the Ford I6, but I like them. I'm looking at getting a mustang with an I6 and was wondering what AOD would work with that particular engine, and what ones are best. Not looking to make a race car, but a really nice reliable cruiser which will eventually have an aluminum head, headers, and throttle body efi. Will keep stock cam. What ones do you think are best? Also what kind of gas mileage do you all get with your 200 I6's? Also, what is the difference between the "big block" I6 and the "small block" I6? Thanks!
I6 and AOD
- Thread starter waldo786
- Start date
66 E100 Pickup
Famous Member
well, you are in the wrong forum for a 'stang...as far as I know, they used small block 6's (144-250) and V-8's. The 'big block 6' that we talk about here is the 240 and the 300. There are huge differences between the two engines, probably most notable is the cylinder head on the big block has a take off intake, whereas the small blocks have the intake cast as part of the head. Naturally, you can't do as much with the small block OEM head, but there are lots of options that the small block guys will gladly share.
John
John
I can understand there are big differences and I understand more now about the intake on the small block ones. I am looking at a 65-68 stang with either a 170 or the 200 I6. Is anyone using one of those new aluminum intakes, and if so how does it work. It looks like it can only be set up for throttle body injection, which is fine, but that's what I'd like to also do eventually. Thanks! Anyone done this on their car?
I think you've still got the engines confused...the intake manifolds for the 170/200 engines are an integral part of the cylinder heads, and can't be changed without some serious machine work. Unless you're referring to the Argentine or Austrlian versions, but then you get into a whole nother world of parts-fun.
The 240/300 intakes can be changed. But Ford never put one of these into a Mustang. It can be done, but not easily.
At any rate, I'd suggest reading the sticky's at the top of this "Small-Block" forum, then searching on any topics still unanswered. Lots of good info contained in them stickys.
Oh, and WELCOME to FordSix - Glad you're here!!!
The 240/300 intakes can be changed. But Ford never put one of these into a Mustang. It can be done, but not easily.
At any rate, I'd suggest reading the sticky's at the top of this "Small-Block" forum, then searching on any topics still unanswered. Lots of good info contained in them stickys.
Oh, and WELCOME to FordSix - Glad you're here!!!
I've just been reading up on the aluminum head being produced or possibly done now by Mike at classicinlines.com. That's really what I'm looking at with the different intakes for the new head. Looking at doing an efi with AOD on it. But back again to my main question, anyone using an AOD, and if so what one works with these engines? Thanks, this young cricket is chirping! Glad to be here. P.S. I also have my grandfathers old 76 ford pinto wagon mpg I4. He bought it new bakc in '76. Just got it restored about 3 years ago. That was the first car I ever used as a daily driver. My friends and I used to call it the Pimpto.
FrankBoss
Well-known member
waldo786":9xsm0nol said:
Well, a 250 has a small block Ford bellhousing pattern. An AOD can be adapted to that fairly easily I would think. The 80-83 "Big Bell" 200s have 3/4 of the SBF pattern, so they should also be easy to adapt a bellhousing that comes from a SBF. I've heard (not certain, never done it) that a 300 flexplate can be used with a 250 or BB 200, so the V8 torque converter can be bolted up.
Hope that points you in the right direction. 8)
shmoozo
Famous Member
wallaka":5lw7qjqk said:
It surprises me that nobody seems to be thinking in terms of a bellhousing adapter to convert Ford small block V8 pattern transmissions to small six engines. Has nobody produced such an item? And if not, would anybody else think that would be a good product for Classic Inlines to develop and produce?
The reason I ask is that bellhousing adapters have been a commonly used trick in the traditional hot rodder's toolkit They were and are used to allow rodders to attach pretty much any engine to any remotely suitable transmission.
Wouldn't it be nice to have an adapter that would allow a person to easily bolt any transmission that was designed for a small block Ford V8 to the back of a 200 cubic inch six? I mean, gee, how about a T5 or an AOD?
And here's an even weirder thought. How about an adapter that allowed the small six Ford to use an Chevy V8 bolt pattern transmission?
Between the two of those adapters (actually 4 since the smaller small-block sixes had 2 different bell housing patterns ... I think
) you'd have access to a HUGE variety of transmissions.On the manual side you'd have a broad variety of 3 to 6 speed transmissions with some that would be easily capable of standing up to the most outrageously overboosted turbocharged six anybody is ever likely to build.
On the automatic side you'd have everything from 2-speed Powerglides through C4s, C6s, TH 350s, TH 400s, 700R4s, 4L60Es, AODs, E4ODs, ... Man, the list is just about endless.
Actually, even just the adapters to fit a small block Ford V8 pattern transmission would provide enormous versatility because there are existing adapters to convert that bellhousing pattern to all manner of other bellhousing patterns.
There is a small problem in that some holes are close enough to potentially interfere with an adaptor plate.
I think there was a discovery that the A4LD or something was able to be adapted without too much grief. Also there's a bell design Mike's got underway/prototyping, for direct installing a T5.
Direct install of a modern paddle-shift auto (VW DSG?) would be cool.
I think there was a discovery that the A4LD or something was able to be adapted without too much grief. Also there's a bell design Mike's got underway/prototyping, for direct installing a T5.
Direct install of a modern paddle-shift auto (VW DSG?) would be cool.
What trans? You can get
1) a bellhousing,
2) a crank adaptor and bellhousing
3) or get a combination block adaptor and crank adaptor.
Ford has used all three methods in the past to fit proprierty gearboxes
The I6 block problem is very small. The only issue is that you may have to grind a very small amount away with a die grinder for stock Chev starter or AOD motors on the small bellhousing I6. If you use a Magnaquench, Denso or Modular V8 or aftermarket FE V8 starter motor, you can do it with no grinding at all. There is no bolt overlap issue unless you are putting a tiny Ford Pinto or 2.77 bellhousing on a bigger Aussie block, an unlikely set-up.
Bell housing swaps can be expensive unless you have a very specific package. The really delightfull key is that Ford made a C3 to Ford 200 gearbox bellhousing from 1979 to 1981, and if you track that down, you can get a 1996 to 2000 4 or 5 speed Explorer/Ranger gearbox to hook up. After then, Ford went to a one piece transmission. So there is a really good all factory option there for some one to, um, explore.
Crank adaptor and bellhousing kits have been done since 1957. Early Borg Warner 35 gearboxes used on British and German Fords have used a special adaptor. Examples were Pinto OHC's, Kent Pushrod engines, the Zephyr 2.6 Liter I6, and the myriads of 2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, and 2.9 V6's your US 4.0 60 degree V6 is based on. The Pinto 2000 engine used one for three years before the C4 and C3 automatics arrived. The latest Colonge V6 in the Explorer still uses a crank spacer.
Crank adaptor and blockplates have been used for the last 40 years. Flathead Ford boys have been bolting C4 gearboxes to things like there 239 Mercury lead sleads, and there are still block plate kits around to bolt an AOD to a flathead with no mods to the block. Ford has actually done it from 1958 to date on there six cylinder cars like the Bristish Zephyr six and the V6 Capri., So did the early XP 200 cube Australian I6's briefly from 1964 to 1965.
Here is a 1970 BW 35 Pinto crank spacer along side a special 289 Windsor to Chevy V8 crank adaptor (part of a THM 700 to Windsor V8 combination I've been working on).
It really doesn't matter if its a 1966 US Ford 200 block
or a 1966 Aussie Ford 200 block
or a 1987 Aussie Ford Crossflow block
Any Ford or Chevy or Buick Olds Pontiac gearbox will be able to be bolted to the I6. But its just for X-flow sixes, so you'd be better off making your own!
Fords ancient C3 (born 1974, and still related the the 5 speed auto in the latest Explorer), Borg Warner's even older 35 (born 1957, and still used on Fords in 1993!), Fords 1980 onwards AOD, they are all doable.
Pick of the bunch is the 1985 to date 4 and 5 speed gearboxes related to the German designed, French made C3 and A4LD, dating back to 1974. Using the 1979 to 1981 C3 bellhousing, you can fit it anywhere..1960 to 1962 round bodies should be a cinch with the smaller C3 style bellhousing. Here is a Cologne V6 verses AOD, I think you'll appreciate the compact nature of these under-rated gearboxes.
Its so much smaller than the AOD, and parts are everywhere
Here was one posted a while back. Its the French made C3, with US bellhousing. Same as every Pinto C3 since 1974-1980, every Mustang II C3, and but this one has a special flexplate, converter and bellhousing and seperator plate which can be fitted to the A4LD and later lock-up clutch gearboxes with not too much effort.
Compare it to the stock Pinto C3.
The latest 4.0 V6 item is still based on the French Bordeux C3, but has extra gearsets like the A4LD, and a has one has a one piece case, sort of like what Ford USA has done with the ZF based six speed 6H. They take good, sound German know-how, and wrap it up in a one piece case that everyone thinks cannot be retrofitted to an earlier I6.
1) a bellhousing,
2) a crank adaptor and bellhousing
3) or get a combination block adaptor and crank adaptor.
Ford has used all three methods in the past to fit proprierty gearboxes
The I6 block problem is very small. The only issue is that you may have to grind a very small amount away with a die grinder for stock Chev starter or AOD motors on the small bellhousing I6. If you use a Magnaquench, Denso or Modular V8 or aftermarket FE V8 starter motor, you can do it with no grinding at all. There is no bolt overlap issue unless you are putting a tiny Ford Pinto or 2.77 bellhousing on a bigger Aussie block, an unlikely set-up.
Bell housing swaps can be expensive unless you have a very specific package. The really delightfull key is that Ford made a C3 to Ford 200 gearbox bellhousing from 1979 to 1981, and if you track that down, you can get a 1996 to 2000 4 or 5 speed Explorer/Ranger gearbox to hook up. After then, Ford went to a one piece transmission. So there is a really good all factory option there for some one to, um, explore.
Crank adaptor and bellhousing kits have been done since 1957. Early Borg Warner 35 gearboxes used on British and German Fords have used a special adaptor. Examples were Pinto OHC's, Kent Pushrod engines, the Zephyr 2.6 Liter I6, and the myriads of 2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, and 2.9 V6's your US 4.0 60 degree V6 is based on. The Pinto 2000 engine used one for three years before the C4 and C3 automatics arrived. The latest Colonge V6 in the Explorer still uses a crank spacer.
Crank adaptor and blockplates have been used for the last 40 years. Flathead Ford boys have been bolting C4 gearboxes to things like there 239 Mercury lead sleads, and there are still block plate kits around to bolt an AOD to a flathead with no mods to the block. Ford has actually done it from 1958 to date on there six cylinder cars like the Bristish Zephyr six and the V6 Capri., So did the early XP 200 cube Australian I6's briefly from 1964 to 1965.
Here is a 1970 BW 35 Pinto crank spacer along side a special 289 Windsor to Chevy V8 crank adaptor (part of a THM 700 to Windsor V8 combination I've been working on).
It really doesn't matter if its a 1966 US Ford 200 block
or a 1966 Aussie Ford 200 block
or a 1987 Aussie Ford Crossflow block
Any Ford or Chevy or Buick Olds Pontiac gearbox will be able to be bolted to the I6. But its just for X-flow sixes, so you'd be better off making your own!
Fords ancient C3 (born 1974, and still related the the 5 speed auto in the latest Explorer), Borg Warner's even older 35 (born 1957, and still used on Fords in 1993!), Fords 1980 onwards AOD, they are all doable.
Pick of the bunch is the 1985 to date 4 and 5 speed gearboxes related to the German designed, French made C3 and A4LD, dating back to 1974. Using the 1979 to 1981 C3 bellhousing, you can fit it anywhere..1960 to 1962 round bodies should be a cinch with the smaller C3 style bellhousing. Here is a Cologne V6 verses AOD, I think you'll appreciate the compact nature of these under-rated gearboxes.
Its so much smaller than the AOD, and parts are everywhere
Here was one posted a while back. Its the French made C3, with US bellhousing. Same as every Pinto C3 since 1974-1980, every Mustang II C3, and but this one has a special flexplate, converter and bellhousing and seperator plate which can be fitted to the A4LD and later lock-up clutch gearboxes with not too much effort.
Compare it to the stock Pinto C3.
The latest 4.0 V6 item is still based on the French Bordeux C3, but has extra gearsets like the A4LD, and a has one has a one piece case, sort of like what Ford USA has done with the ZF based six speed 6H. They take good, sound German know-how, and wrap it up in a one piece case that everyone thinks cannot be retrofitted to an earlier I6.
I have been wondering of a setup like the bop? 700r4 conversion kit. you saw off the one piece bell and have bolt up a new bell using longer bolts in the front pump. I am trying to scare up a core aod to try this out on (maybe can mod a c4 bell to do it?)
One reason I asked this, and I might be wrong, but I thought I found looking through all of this info that there was an adaptor plate which could be used to hook up an I6 to an AOD. Can't remember where I saw it now, but sure I did. Maybe I was just seeing things. Having also been big into GM cars, I know there are adaptor plates that allow older BOP engines to mount to the chevy based 7004r trans. Doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, but wondered if anyone was using their I6 with the adaptor and AOD. I'm actually surprised more people aren't doing this. Anyway, enough about me. The pinto pics will be my next post on here 
Pics of the Pinto (and some other rides) as per request 8)
http://delaware.facebook.com/album.php? ... d=11309625
http://delaware.facebook.com/album.php? ... d=11309625
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