Ignition upgrade need help!!!!???

[Anonymous]

I know this has been discussed many times but i was hoping someone could nutshell this for me. I want to upgrade to a duraspark 2. I need to know single or dual advance. Also what module is best to use. I have a 66 200. Does it matter if I use a distributor off a 200 or 250 engine? I plan to use distributor off a 78 fairmont. I think i need distributor, cap adaptor, rotor, cap, ignition module, coil and plug wires. Am i missing anything or do not need anything i listed? Any thoughts on petronix? I plan to buy all new parts as i am also putting in all new wiring so just easier if all is new. Thanks for any and all help. Mark

 

[66Sprinter]

i dont have any engine mods yet...so I went with the pertronix and the flamethrower coil...used 8mm acell wires a larger gap in the plugs and I am very happy with the results..the expense was less than $125 for all and the improvement was awesome....if I work up the engine...I think the MSD might be the next step in spark upgrades.

 

[Anonymous]

Jammer, a couple of questions. Do you need a module w/ your set up? if so what are you using. Also what was involved w/ your instalation, process, changes needed etc. Thanks again for your help. Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Hi bax,

The comparo between the DSII and the Pertronix ignition is always interesting. Bottom line, they are both good choices. However, if this is your first mod (a good place to start) there are a couple of other issues to be aware of. The following is a post I submitted a while back that covers some of the areas you should think about at this time. Last comment, the Pertronix II with the 12 volt set up is very strong and VERY easy to install.
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"...You have asked a question that could set off quite a debate, DuraSpark vs. Pertronix. I favor the Pertronix II because the technology is newer, the performance is excellent, and reliability is better (I'm it trouble now).

Reliability. While this comment is second hand, I will say that I have not met a Ford machanic who hasn't said that the DSII "box" is unreliable. As a matter of fact, I had one tell me they made it a policy ..."back then"... to keep several on hand because they had to switch them out so often. As for Pertronix, they DO NOT perform well without a 12 volt hook-up. So, there a are lot of Ford owners out there who did not have a good experience with the Pertronix system. Why? Based on a response to an MCA letter, which response was published by MCA on their sight, Pertronix determined that there installation instructions were not clear. As a result, many of the users reporting poor performance had powered the unit via direct hook up to the coil, which is NOT a 12 volt switched source. This problem was solved with the Pertronix II.

Technology. The Pertronix and the DSII are more than 20 years old. In the case of the DSII, it has not been used since the advent of fuel injection (mid 80's). The original Pertronix unit is more than 25 years old. This not to say that they don't work, or that you will not have good luck with them.

Pertronix II with Flamethrower 2. About two years old. Upgrade 1 - converts coil to 12 volt by eliminating the ballast resistor in the coil circuit (this is a good thing). Upgrade 2 - the system has built in dwell control. This helps to insure maximum spark signal throughout the RPM range (one would have to add MSD to the DSII, at a cost of $150+, to get this function). Upgrade 3 - the system has a built in circuit protector to prevent burning up the module if the key is left on while the engine is not running, i.e., if you set and listen to your sound system. Bottom line, for $115 you get a 12 volt system with a 45,000 volt spark and dwell control. As a side benefit, this unit can be installed in about 20 minutes (easier than replacing points).

As a final note, the fact that you want to upgrage your dual vac distributor (66 cars come with the dual vac dizzy) begs another question / comment. What are your long range plans for the car? Specifically, do you plan to add a performance carburetor? This is an important consideration because (and I learned this lesson the hard way), NONE of the typical / popular performance carbs (Holley or Weber) support the dual vac dizzy, and the Pertronix unit that fits the dual vac probably will not fit the single vac dizzy required with these carbs. So, if you invision a carb change somewhere down the road you may want to upgrade the the dizzy when you do the Pertronix II. This way you'll be ready for any carb change you may want to make, including one that would require a mechanical only set up as the single vac unit is easily converted. In this regard, when you purchase your rebuilt single vac dizzy (about $65 with new cap and rotor) be sure to order / purchase one with the 10* weight stop set-up..."
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Hope this is helpful. Lot of info to sort through. Don't hesitate to contact me if you need more detail.

Enjoy the trip - Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I would go (with your setup) with the Pertonix electronic ignitoin system (breakerless - replaces your condenser and all your points) and the Pertronix 40,000 volt flame thrower coil - then if you want you can upgrade your Spark plugs and wires (also make sure you have a good distributer cap). I have several upgrades (www.geocities.com/levidodd7/65stang) and that is the set up that I am using and I am very pleased with it.

 

[MustangSix]

All good points, Steve, but let me throw in another .02.

While the Pertronix itself is a great device, and the Ignitor II version even better, I really don't like the original pre '68 distributor. It only has a vacuum advance which is a marginal device even when operating properly. That said, the Pertronix is so much better than points that I heartilly recommend it even when the original distributor is kept.

But IMO, a far better upgrade is a '68-later distributor with a Pertronix, or a DSII with a non-Ford module. This gives you both mechanical and vacuum advance which will optimize both mileage and performance. I particularly like using the DSII with either a GM-style performance module or a Chrysler Orange module. I can personally vouch (ouch!) for the size of the spark delivered by either.

I have used the DSII with an MSD6A and that is a very easy hook up when using the MSD DSII adapter.

I have used the DSII in conjunction with an Autolite 1100 carb and it works fine. It would work better with a later carb that has standard ported vacuum, but there's no reason to not use it with an early carb.

Let's clear up a couple of pieces of terminology while we're at it. There is some confusion when people refer to dual advance vs. single advance. When you go to to the parts store and ask for "dual advance" you might get an odd stare or something you don't want.

- The pre-68 Load-O-Matic is vacuum advance only. I don't know what you mean when you say "dual vacuum".

- The 68-73 points distributor has both vacuum and centrifugal advance. The vacuum canister has either a single or dual vacuum connection, depending on application. The dual vacuum connection is an emissions control design consideration. The single vacuum setup is the preferred distributor because it is easier to set up and does not require additional vacuum and temperature switches.

- The 73-83 DSI and DSII have both vacuum and centrifugal advance. These also could have either a single or dual vacuum advance canister, depending on application. Again, the single vacuum setup is the preferred setup.

As far as specifying the centrifugal advance slot, I think you'll be out of luck. I really don't think the remanufacturers classify distributors that way and the only way to be sure is to open it up. Not a hard job and worth the effort to check. We'll have to do a page showing the procedure.

 

[Anonymous]

bax,

Since I have the Mallory system in my car, I have my orignal distributor with the pertronix already set up that I would be willing to part with for pretty cheap if you are interested.

Bill

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for the info. I am leaning to the DS2 w/ msd6a module. Plan th ise the 78 fairmont distributer. Seems that the later distributers are better and would a better set-up than i mentiopned above be a 78 distributer w/ msd 6a module and incorporate petronix 2 in the 78 distributer?? Any thoughts on this? Thanks Mark
P.s Bill thanks for th offer, i will pass for now as i am still up in the air on direction i am going, thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

Terminalog. God help us all. Good point. Dual vac dizzy. Really referring to the spark control valve function. Adavnce / retard based on load, the "Load-O-Matic.

Bax, regarding your last question. The 78 Dizzy, a DSII, is fully electronic as a stand alone. The Pertronix unit cannot be used with it.

An interesting note. I converted my dizzy to mechanical only. I do not use the vac system so I am not aware of any weakness related thereto. Oh well. As a mechanical only devise it is very user friendly.

As for the 10* specification. The parts store I frequent will order the dizzy from their rebuilder to the buyers specs. You do, however, need to confirm.

Great fun - Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Steve, thanks for the responses. I built up my mustang in high school and farmed out most engine work. It was not done all that well. Now many years removed i want to back track and do it right this time and do as much of it as possible myself. I figure no one will give your car more care than the owner. So as i am not a wiz under the hood i need all the help i can get. Thank you an all for all the help. Look forward to hearing from you soon. Mark