Ignitor II questions

C

cfmustang

Famous Member
Well,

While waiting for the loaner 32/36 carb, I got itchy to do something so I installed my Ignitor II and blaster coil.

Is the pertronix more sensitive to dirty plugs and/or plug gap? The car was running decent with the points (well, as decent as mine will run) but when I put in the pertronix it was hard to start for a while.

Just to answer the first question, I am running the red wire off of the positive terminal of the blaster coil because I am getting a solid 12v from there.

It just seemed like I had to try it for a while, then it started. It got better and better, but was still difficult. So, knowing my plugs were pretty dirty, I ran to Murry's and picked up a set of Champion plugs (*more on that later) and gapped them to .45. That seemed to help. However, now the thing is pinging like crazy.

Did anyone else have replace their plugs with the Ignitor II? What about retarding their timing?

*Lastly, I went to buy Bosch Platinums but the autoparts store told me not to buy them because the car is not fuel injected and those plugs aren't self-cleaning... I haven't heard of this before? Has anyone else?
 
I know this sounds like a broken record, but why do you guys still buy the pertronix II.

I am sure I am not the only one to have either no start, idle roughness & just cutting off when coming to a stop.

Pertronix knows they have a problem with the II & yet still produce it.

Either swap to the pertronix I which is a very reliable unit, or put in the duraspark & be done with ignition problems. William
 
From Bosch's own site - http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/SparkPlugs/Platinum/

Pure platinum technology with a unique extended insulator design
If you want to experience quicker starts, smoother acceleration and top fuel efficiency, Bosch Platinum is the spark plug for you. Only Bosch Platinum features a pure platinum center electrode that's heat-fused into an extended ceramic insulator to eliminate air gaps which exist in platinum alloy-tipped plugs. This superior design reaches its self-cleaning temperature faster. And with a lower ignition voltage requirement, Bosch Platinum provides reliable starting in hot and cold weather extremes and provides a more reliable spark at higher RPM's without misfires.
Click to expand...
 
Lastly, I went to buy Bosch Platinums but the autoparts store told me not to buy them because the car is not fuel injected and those plugs aren't self-cleaning... I haven't heard of this before? Has anyone else?

No but I would still take his advise. I don't want to even hear a post backing bosch plugs.

The spark plugs I have had the best experience with are NGK iridium WRX51X-7510.

Second, accel #378 or the colder #375.

Third, autolite platinium AP-46 single platinium or APP-46 double platinium.

Personally these 3 have been the best performers I have used.

Maybe I have a hardon about bosch, but from real shop experience the bosch plugs were fine in VW beetle's or other german vehicles.

At the many dealerships I have worked in the last 25 years bosch plugs were the direct result of gross negitive performance on honda,toyota,chevrolet & lexus autos.
When they were removed the drivability problem was solved.

If you like them use them, its your vehicle. William
Click to expand...
 
Bosch = teh suk.

I have run polls on other forums and proven that Bosch platinum plugs are crap. I'm with wsa111 in that I don't have the energy to fuel an argument against Bosch plugs any more... BTDT too many times. If anyone here has any questions about whether Bosch plugs are anything more than marketing hype and pixie dust, please consult Google. There aren't too many forum discussions out there that end in warm fuzzy feelings toward Bosch plugs.

As for the Pertronix issue, a lot of Ford people that tap the coil + lead for power to the Pertronix (either I or II) end up with problems because that lead is at the end of a resistance wire. For trouble-free operation, Pertronix says you need to bypass that wire and go straight to a 12V+ switched source (such as right from the ignition switch).
 
The Blaster 2 or 3 coils are .7 ohm coils. The Pertronix Ignitors are designed for 1.5 to 3 ohm coils. The pertronix probably is malfunctioning from too much current draw from the coil. If you are using stock wiring to the coil with the ballast wire, you will still bypass the ballast when starting the engine by way of the starter relay (solenoid). Once it starts, the ballast will bring the primary resistance above the 1.5 ohms, but the coil & Ignitor will only have 6 or less volts available when the coil is energized.

I am now at the point where I will be getting a Pertronix and a 12 volt coil. I will probably get the Pertronix Flame Thrower coil, but I have not decided on the Ignitor version yet. Some say not to use the Ignitor II, but are their problems due to the wrong coil being used with them? Or because a ballast was also being used & the Ignitor II was being powered at the positive terminal of coil? I'd like to hear from anyone who used a Flamethrower with the Ignitor II and removed or bypassed the ballast. Do they work well & reliably?

Steve
 
I don't understand all ya'lls problem with the Pertronix II, I've been using mine for 7 months and it has yet to cause any problems for me.
 
First of all: Correction. The coil is a Pertronix Flame-thrower, not a Blaster. I got my name brands mixed up. All I know is the coil box says that it is a .6 ohm coil. If the ignitor is supposed to work with a 1.5 to 3 ohm coil, why would their own recommeded coil be a .6 ohm?

Honestly, I don't even know what that means? All I know is they say you need a solid 12v to the red wire. I am getting that no problem. I don't think I have a restistor wire or balast resistor becuase if I disconnect the red lead to the coil, that is 12v. When that wire was hooked up to my old coil, the voltage dropped to 6v when it was hooked up. With the flamethrower, it is steady at 12v.

Do I still need to hook up to another 12v source? Isn't a 12v source a 12v source regardless of where it is from?

As for the why I used the Ignitor II, I purchased is a year ago before I heard the warnings. It has been sitting in the box and I don't have another $70 to $80 bucks to buy yet another ignitor when I had one sitting in my garage.

B.T.W. Good to know about the plugs...
 
The ballast resistance won't drop the voltage until the coil is energized. To
test for how much voltage you really get across the coil, disconnect the distributor wire from the coil and ground that side. Then measure the voltage on the + side of the coil with the key on.
 
So it sounds like when the ignition is on, but not started I am pulling 12v. When I actually turn the key to start the car, the voltage drops. Then, once the engine is running, the voltage steps back up. Correct?

I'll stop by radioshack on the way home and pick up some wire and a splicing connectors and hook it up by the ignition switch. Does it matter how close the splice is to the switch?
 
Run a wire through the firewall and tap right behind (out of) the switch before the resistor wire.
My PII and Flamethrower work fine. No probs whatsoever.
 
No, with the ignition on and the engine not running, The ignitor should ground out the coil for the first few seconds (actual time unknown by me) and then sense the engine isn't running so it releases the ground from the coil so the coil & ignitor don't overheat & burn out. The voltage on the hot side of the coil will at first be dropped by the ballast while the coil is grounded by the ignitor, but return to a full 12 volts when the ignitor shuts down. When the key is in the start position, the ballast is bypassed with a full 12 volts from the "I" terminal of the starter relay (solenoid).

My plan is to use the stock coil hot wire with the ballast still intact to power a relay coil which will switch battery 12volts on to the coil hot side. That way I don't have to splice into my stock wiring under the dash to get ignition voltage, and possibly cause some other electrical problem. Also, my old ignition switch won't have to supply the higher current draw that the hotter ignition system will use. The relay won't care if there is a little ballast resistance in the circuit because its coil draws such low current. I'll go a little overboard on the relay rating and use a relay capable of switching 30 amps. The switched output from the coil will power the coil and ignitor.

The Pertronix website doesn't give much information about the coil resistance or the current capablitiy of the Ignitors. I did find a statement that their Flamethrower 2 or 3 should work without a ballast when used with electronic ignitions meant to use a 1.5 to 3 ohm coil. A .6 ohm or .7 ohm coil would draw 20 amps when energized by a full 12 volts. That seems quite high to me. I guess I'll have to call them before I buy the set to confirm coil resistance and the current switching capability of the Ignitor.

Steve
 
Okay...got home and found the problem had nothing to do with voltage.

When I got home, I started it up (still difficult) and put the timing light on it. Holy Toledo! Keep in mind, when I installed the pertronix, I did not touch the timing at all. When it had the points in it, it was at about 13 degrees initial. JUST BY INSTALLING THE INGNITOR II, the timing was so far advanced at initial that I could not even see the mark. I am guessing it was somewhere around 3 degrees. That would explain the the hard to start and the horrible pinging when driving.

I backed off the timing back to about 13 and it starts fine... Now, some of my old issues are back.
 
As I stated before, if you want to eliminate the problem scrap the pertronix II.

I have been down this road before, I have a full 12 volts to the unit.

Still has the same problems.

FFFFrigging listen the #II is junk.

If you want to believe the smoke screen they stated, thats up to you.

You still have the same problem-RIGHT

If I was rear ended when I had the II in my mustang, pertronix would be the prime canidate for a lawsuit.

Maybe thats the only way they will recall this junk from us consumers.

Get your money back, before it kills you. William
 
You still should rewire the power to the hot side of the coil. And since you have had the Ignitor II for a while, you probably won't be able to trade it back in for the original Ignitor, but who knows. Either way, I still suggest adding the relay to get full 12v power to the coil & Ignitor red lead.

Steve
 
Honestly, the ignitor II was only temporary till I can get around to adding a Duraspark next year.

I am going to try running a wire to the iginition switch this afternoon. Should only take a few minutes. If that doesn't make a difference, back go the points.

I have another question though... Has anyone hooked up a dwell meter to the engine once the Pertronix is installed? Mine is reading around 20 now and the spec is for around 38 I believe. Is this common?
 
Since nobody with real experience has answered the dwell question, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth based on electronic properties on inductance.

With points, your stuck with a constant dwell setting which will cause your spark energy to fall off with increased RPM. With electronic ignition, you now have the ability to increase the dwell with increased RPM so that your spark energy will not fall off as much. Therefore you deisign the system to use lower dwell at idle and increase the dwell with the RPM. You should see the dwell increase when you rev up the engine with the Ignitor II.

Steve
 
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