It is a 250!

[Anonymous]

Hey, i just got my 1968 Mustang today.
When checking under the hood - i found out that my car has the Ford 250 cui inline six, and not the 200 as i thought and as the VIN says it should be - can you tell me the hp/kW of an original 250 and general thoughts about the 250??

I also have some troubles closing the hood properly - when closed the aircan (name?) touches the hood. Is the 250 a bit higher or what do you think compared to the original 200?

I'm gonna check the carb tomorrow to find out what kind it can be - do you know which carb org. was on the 250 (a pic maybe - or link to more info?) I've searched the web since i got home but cant find so much info about the org. 200 comp. to 250 and carbs to vice versa...

 

[Asa]

the 250 is about an inch, inch and a half taller than the 200
you've got more options for transmission upgrades, and it has more power from stock than a 200

 

[x21]

A long while back, I considered getting a 250 under he hood of my 68. I wondered how well it would clear and thought I might have needed a way to lower the engine. The part you talk about touching the roof is the air cleaner.
I think the 250cid was rated around 145 HP, which was a gross number, not SAE net. Comparitively, the 200cid was rated between 112 and 120 HP (gross).

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Fossil:

And welcome. A '68 with a 250? The 250 did not appear in the FoMoCo line up and the Mustang until 1969. What makes you think you have a 250? in there. Please give us more details. What is the casting numbers on the head and the block?

The '69 250s came with an Autolite 1101 carburetor. It looks just like the 1100s- no SCV. It used a Carter RBS from '70 - '74, and a version of the YF until The end of production of the 250 engine.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

Heya, i've found receipts from prev. owners fixes where it says that the engine is a 250 from -71, the aircleaner also has a sticker with 250 on it - haven't checked any numbers on head yet. The carb is a Autolite, i saw that today. I would have wanted the org. 200, but what the heck - it runs good this way too...

 

[addo]

It's a '68 and thus runs the slightly wider track and larger engine bay. The 250 fits that arrangement quite nicely, just like in a Falcon. Plenty of room around it to suit add-ons; headers for example will clear the body better than on a '66.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry for not posting in a while, i've been cruising around to weddings and stuff, time is limited these days.

The codes i find on the engine are these:

http://f0ssil.1go.dk/bilder/mustang/ - motorkoder2.jpg (it seems webhost won't let me link directly)

No. 1 says: D2DE 6015-AA
No. 2 says: C6DE 6090-B

By checking this fenomenal page i've found out some interesting stuff. Old reciepts i've found says the engine should be a '71 250, but when checking the list on "mm66" it oughta be a '72 250 from a Falcon, and from what i've read here the '72 250 isn't as powerful as before - any comments?

 

[addo]

That paint combination is cool. I had to go back to http://f0ssil.1go.dk/bilder/mustang/ for the pictures. Is the motorbike for pulling the caravan?

The 250s and 200s were "tamed" for emission control in the earlier 1970s, but after 35 years the differences may be tiny. If the car is running fine, then only need worry about what you choose.

Regards, Adam.

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Fossil and All:

The factory rating for a '71 250 is as follows-
CR 9:1, HP 145, Tq 232.

The factory ratings for a '72 250 is as follows-
CR 8:1, HP 95, Tq 181.

The only real difference between the two is the reduction of 1 point of compression. That alone will reduce power and economy- power loss will be about 4 to 8%. economy loss will be more like 10%.

The big difference is in the rating system. '71 and earlier are gross ratings, which means the the HP is determined at the flywheel with no alternator, fan, trans, no trans or differential. '72 and later were rated net, which means at the rear wheels, with all parasitic losses in place. That accounts for most of the 50 hp loss.

Also note that '72 and later engines suffer from more and more EPA "Fixes".

The loss of CR was mostly accomplished by leaving more deck on the top of the block when finish machining after casting. Deck height on '72 and later blocks can be a much as .150". That kills quench and gives a lazy, knock prone combustion.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, okay. Thanks for yer comments.
I would prefer a org. 200 for my -68, but it's so darn hard to find one here. There are a bunch of falcons which you can strip from but it's kinda annoying byuing a whole car for the engine

 

[addo]

The 250 is in there and it works fine. You'd almost certainly regret going back to a 200 when the comparative performances were noted.

Note that even back many years, there were clever and intuitive machinists; your motor may well have been doctored for improved performance over its lifetime.

Regards, Adam.

 

[CoupeBoy]

I searched on Geezers page and couldnt find that number anywhere. How have you verified that it is a 250? How many bolts in the water pump? Do you have any pics of the starter? Why are you going for original? I looked at the rest of the pics of your car and you have some work to do so that everything else gets back to original.

If you are bored take a look at this thing. http://www.phlegm.us/workshop/index.php I took information from several different websites and my Ford Parts Interchange manual and started plugging in prefix codes along with basic part numbers. It will be a while though before I start getting more information on which prefix plus basic part number plus revision equals which exact part. This may sound confusing but check this out
C4AE-6015 is a '63/64 5 bolt bellhousing 289 block
C4AE-6015-F
is a 1964 352 with hydraulic lifters
There are a few revision changes also but it should highlight that not all 6015 parts are the same. The above information was gleened from "High Performance Ford Engine Parts Interchange" which covers bent8s from 221-460.

Are you sure you want to start being concerned with originallity? The front fenders are missing the marker lights, you have a '67 steering wheel. Those look like '67 heater controls. Door panels, radio bezel, incorrect rims.. Now I aint saying you need to change anything, heck I even like the painted roof (vs vinyl). You have a sharp looking, running car. You ought to put some miles on it while the weather is nice.

Also to put in a 200 you would need to get the correct bellhousing, flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate, Z-bar. Perhaps swap back in the right radiator. The one you have might work if you use adapters of some sort on the hoses OR have a radiator shop braze on the correct ends. Also as addo points out that engine may have been doctored, for example the head on the motor might have smaller combustion chambers the the factory one for that motor, which would increase your compression. There are also cases were people have made minor changes to the bolt holes on factory motor mount brackets to drop the motor down a little in the engine bay.

Have you thought about changing the air cleaner assembly? Check out this thread from about this time last year.
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14567

Also when you say its hard to find a correct '68 200 there, where are you?

-ron

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy fossil and All:

I'm in agreement with the others- Keep the 250 and enjoy. With the '72 250 block and a small 52cc chamber head, assuming a composite head gasket your CR is currently between 8.2:1 & 8.6:1. Not great, but not too bad either. The unknowns are was the block decked and/or the head milled during the rebuild? Also, what pistons were used. Without that info we're just guessing on current CR.

There's plenty of room for improvement with this combo. Keep looking for detailed info on the rebuild that combined these parts. And then begin planning for what you will want for a final version.

Ron- D2DE-AA is a good 250 casting number. I have yet to see a 200 block with these first two digits. D7DE-CA is another series fairly unique to 250s.

Adios, David

 

[CoupeBoy]

Ron- D2DE-AA is a good 250 casting number. I have yet to see a 200 block with these first two digits. D7DE-CA is another series fairly unique to 250s.

Adios, David

I wasn't saying that it was not a 250, it's just that six casting or part numbers are not very easy to come by. Like I said I did a search on Geezer's page and on the fordsix tech casting number page http://fordsix.com/inlinesixdata.htm and neither of them listed it. I have atleast two books that I can crossreference bent8 parts with and multiple websites. I am still looking for good reference material for the sixes, perhaps I should buy your book one of these days? Where did you get your information from? Other reference material? Trial and error? Honestly I have been purposefully staying away from the six material because I know you guys worked hard on the book you have and I don't want to infringe on yer territory.

On a completely unrelated note, last weekend my momma dropped off a set of '69 mustang frame and motor mounts, and that means according to everything I have read that I should be able to finally drop the '74 250 into my '67 mustang. woohoo!

-ron

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy Back:

Ron- Please feel free to come on into the field of Ford Six casting codes. We have gathered information on casting for blocks and heads from every source you can think of plus looking at every engine we can find and taking casting codes. We encourage and invite participation in this query. The more we know, the better for all.

We also solicite input from anyone willing to post. We share what we know and hope others will share back. The suffixes are still a major mystery that is still twisting and turning. The information continues to evolve. the most current info we have is on section dividers in the Falcon Performance Handbook. IIRC Jack has a list of casting codes somewhere on this site. Check it out.

Adios, David

 

[Anonymous]

Heya, thanks for comments guys. I'm sticking with the 250 as you say, it runs fine and my only prob with it is really the hood clearance and some appearance issues (hoses and stuff). I'll start checking for some new air filter assembly, that thread looks very interesting.

As for originality i know there's some bits and pieces exchanged and missing and when i just bought the car i planned on restoring it, thats why i got concerned bout the 250 from the start. But it doesn't really matter to me now, i'll see what i'll do to it. (and i have some issues with the org. -68 steering wheel anyway )